Divorce not busted 2

[Kettricken]

Yeah, whatever, I still think it's totally asinine to post to a thread you only *partly* read in a community you're unfamiliar with and start slinging around a lot of overgeneralizations about "you guys/you men/etc".

Of *course* not all WAS are involved with someone else. Duh. *Personally* what triggered my "huh, wonder if there's someone else" radar in *this* case was all the stuff about "TRUE LOVE" in the letter, coupled with her age and general expressed desire to kick over the traces and seize happiness before its too late AND the fact that she's in regular contact with "an old friend" who is "helping her through this". Like it or don't, that IS pretty much script, so it's not out of line to at least *wonder*.

As far as the rest goes, Orich, it just irks me to hear you blame yourself. Not saying you're without fault -- no one is -- but c'mon. Any spouse, male or female, who didn't -- as soon as they realized it was a love-wrecking problem for them -- sit their mate down and say "This is a real problem that is threatening my love for you and our marriage" in *very clear and understandable* words of one syllable has no rational room for complaint. Whatever they felt they were "driven to" in their disaffection and frustration is fully on their own head. It's easier to have an affair/completely wall out the offending spouse/deny their children an upbringing with both parents in the same home/FITB than it is to preemptively lay it all on the line like an adult? Is it really????

And I say that as a wife who put her marriage at risk for very similar reasons .... inability to communicate my needs honestly to either myself OR my husband. It was fully crappy and infantile on my part -- done without bad motive or even comprehension, true -- but I don't see any reason to whitewash it, either, and am not inclined to rationalize it for anyone else.

I have no personal experience with Retro, but everyone seems to have learned a lot about communication from the experience, which would seem to stand you in good stead as co-parents, if nothing else.

[ScifiGirl]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Kettricken. It just so happens that I am very familiar with this and other communities like it. And as far as it being asinine for me to share a post regarding my own personal experience in hopes it may help another human being find clarity in a time of trouble is duly noted.

As for the "true love" and "her age", they very well may be a contributing factor in her realizations.

I also do see your point about the OM. This is a real possibility especially if this "old friend" was never mentioned until just recently. I will give you that much! They usually just seem to pop up out of nowhere.

Jess

[Sara]

I still see you being railroaded. She writes a long letter explaining her feelings and desires, and expects you to 1) move out of the house, and 2) go into mediation for a divorce, and 3) get over it.

Nice. Maybe, for her. Realistic? No.

It's your turn to say something. I think you should say, "I will consider mediation after we go to Retrouvaille with open minds and willing to try to understand each other." Note: I did not say, fix the marriage, reconcile, or any other phrase indicating a predetermined outcome for the weekend. I just said "open minds and willing to try to understand each other". Because, you both deserve that after 10 years and two children. And with a future relationship of some sort, that won't end in the foreseeable future.

She owes you 44 hours of talking to you about your lives. (And 16 of those hours are spent asleep.)

[Sara]

And Kett, with an alias like "Sara", I don't expect to be mistaken for a man either.

[Kettricken]

It's your turn to say something. I think you should say, "I will consider mediation after we go to Retrouvaille with open minds and willing to try to understand each other." Note: I did not say, fix the marriage, reconcile, or any other phrase indicating a predetermined outcome for the weekend. I just said "open minds and willing to try to understand each other". Because, you both deserve that after 10 years and two children. And with a future relationship of some sort, that won't end in the foreseeable future.

This. Yes.

(and Sara, giggle. At least my handle is *somewhat* ambiguous.)

[25yearsmlc]

Let's all remember that whatever WE think about OP or this or that or retrovaille, it's ORich's thread and he's hurting a lot now.

Let's keep him in our prayers and recall that for the most part, even though our egos DO get in the way at times, this IS about supporting another person in deep pain, usually pain we recognize in some way as being very familiar.

Orich is reeling right now. And he's a police officer who has a badge and a gun every working day and needs to be focussed 100% on what he's doing b/c there are bad guys out there with guns too, and partners who want to know he's got their back.

So, let's all back up a minute and just send some comforting prayers his way.

Sandi2 was an almost WAW who came back and even though stat's say most men who div have OW (not 99% but more than half,) the numbers ARE lower for women leaving...as I heard one female comedian say, "We women may not know what we want...but we sure as hell want you men TO KNOW!!"

I don't think her letter changes much and I would read NOTHING into her behavior with the kids. She's trying to be "happy" at least partly for them, b/c that IS better than crying and yelling or hiding in the bedroom, right?
And she's trying damn hard to convince herself "She is FINALLY AT PEACE..."

all those years when she THOUGHT she loved you...she was wrong or faking it...living a lie...Too bad she isn't in Hollywood b/c she'd deserve an Oscar! All those holidays and birthdays and the wedding and the births and the laughs and the Making love and the vacations and the hard times when you did comfort each other and the duties you carried out as partners...all of it was an act? BRAVO!! SHE MISSED HER CALLING, AND NEEDS TO MOVE HERE ASAP!!

Please...and whatever your flaws are, work on them for YOU so you can be the best man you can be, (ie a man only a fool would leave). B/C then you'll have done your best. :Leave the results up to God. If she still leaves, then she is a fool...

But make no mistake, SHE is responsible for all "the lying" which it was not, it is BS and extreme marital revision that you better get ready for b/c the MLCer and the WAS ALL do it...suddenly they were NEVER HAPPY or you've been HOLDING THEM BACK and blah blah blah b/c you are pretty much responsible for anything bad that happened to them...and as for the witholding of her emotions and not telling you, IF EVEN TRUE, and some of it I guess is, well, You are not telepathic and that is ON HER...totally. Next time she looks at you, or away from you, or up or down, ask her ABOUT THAT SIGNAL THAT A REAL LOVE WOULD KNOW....please....

I went to a wedding a year ago and a mutual friend later divorced in part b/c she was at the wedding and "it reminded her of how different she felt about her h now, (after 18 years of M) b/c she expected to ALWAYS feel that way about her h,"(as in, like the bride and groom did that day) I did ask her if she thought that was realistic and she said "I believe in true love" ( I SWEAR maybe your w went to a wedding or they read the same novel...sheesh, it's embarrassing as a woman to read this stuff) ANYHOW, as the DBer I am, I said "I believe in true love too...I just don't think wedding days are a good test of it...the tests of true love come when you lose a child to death, or your parents need 24 hr care for 3 years (or more b/c who knows?) with cancer or alzheimers, or you have a job you hate but you do it anyway b/c it's close by so you can coach your kids' team and you go to the PTA even though it's boring and you do a lot of ROUTINE things b/c life has some of those and it's not all one big adrenaline rush and if it were supposed to be, then we'd all model our marriages on HOllywoods idiotic 6% success rate...and what if one of you is becomes disabled/disfigured or has a stroke and drools... you think that you feel THE SAME WAY YOU DID ON YOUR WEDDING NIGHT THEN???" Does that mean the M was all a lie?? Tell THST to the couples who make it thru all this and live to tell about it.
Those events change you, yes they do. You won't ever be the same, that is true. But like a scar keeps your leg from looking the same, it doesn't follow that you'll never use it again or walk or dance on it AND who knows, some argue that where the break was, extra calcium forms and the place of the break becomes stronger. Create what you can with what IS...not what you hoped once was and trying to get that back.
Oh that friend didn't stay in touch with me as much later on....but the other point is about What true love IS....here's a small example -- when I do a show (it's an avocation that occasionally actually pays me) my h shows up and laughs really hard at EVERY joke I tell...

Now maybe that's no big deal. It isn't roses or a diamond necklace. But he has heard EVERY ONE OF THESE JOKES over 100 times in development or past shows. He has his flaws God knows (And I feel it's my job to so inform him). But his constant reliable loud hearty laughter at every joke I tell in a club, is what I like to call "true love"....so is my willingness to hunt and fish with him...I'm a city girl at heart.

Someday your w will know that she has turned away from true love merely b/c it wasn't wrapped the way the picture she had said it should be, literally. How sad. And pathetic and NOT YOU.... Have you read The Five Love Languages? You may think it's too late to count, but it's not. It really isn't. If you had asked me 3 or even 2 years ago if I would be here where I am, I would have given us a 10% chance. Here we are, so don't give up. Act as if you didn't read it, but not in a way that's disrespectful...just the "Oh that, yeah I guess that's how you FELT RIGHT THEN and maybe for days....

And though things are by no means all smooth now in my m now, I DO KNOW I will be alright no matter what.

You will too.
(( hugs ))
j-

PS I have heard too many good things about Retrovaille to not encourage it strongly. I attended something 20 years ago that was not Retrovaille but was for individuals but I was so changed by it, and so much happier that my h went by himself a few months later! Clearly if it helps A person, it'll HELP couples obviously so those things CAN change lives. How can it hurt? Seriously. She does owe it to you since "things are all out in the open now, so you can take it and so can she..."

[Tomato]

hi Orich my brother

I haven't had much of a chance to check things out over here. But there is pain all over these boards and aparently your's is rather acute right now from what I seem to be gathering.

Just wanted you to know that peace and comfort and shelter from these "storms" that go with being on these boards as we "duke it out" with the devil to win back our M's will be prayed for 4 U brother.

Turn all your battles over to Him and the fight is instantly over. And I mean instantly. Whether we sense it or see it or what not. Instantly over. Like H20 douses flames ...such is our Lord to the troubles that ail us.

Take heart and don't fear these circumstances. They are nothing more than that. Period.

You will get through. And you will be unharmed with the Lord. Stay at His side.

.......

Anytime you wanna wander on over to my DB abode ..feel free. There is always something outlandish .. going on over there.



Ted

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Puppy,

I have to ask... Were you cheated on?

Yes. I was warned (all the classic warning signs were there), and I ignored them, insisting "oh, my wife could never do that."

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Let's all remember that whatever WE think about OP or this or that or retrovaille, it's ORich's thread and he's hurting a lot now.
. . .


Sandi2 was an almost WAW who came back and even though stat's say most men who div have OW (not 99% but more than half,) the numbers ARE lower for women leaving...

I would like to see the source for that, because I had always heard -- and my experience on these boards and others has certainly shown -- that it's the exact opposite. A woman is MUCH less likely to leave a marriage unless she has "a soft place to fall."

In any case, as I noted above, my warnings to Orich at THIS time, WERE precisely because he was hurting. Many LBSs find comfort to know that there are reasons why their walking-away spouse are saying such hurtful things to them, and are in the fog that they are.

But I've said my peace on it, both to him initially and now here yesterday, and I'll drop it.

As for my prayers, O knows he always has them.

Puppy

[Orich]

There is no way she will go to Retrouvaille. She has made that clear. I don't know what my next move will be other than to talk about legal separation, which I am not looking forward to.