You've got a good group of people assembled here, and they are all right. She is head in the clouds, starry-eyed about what love is, and she is flat out wrong about that. I was shocked to see that she is using the "it's not real love" excuse twice in a row. She never will learn, will she? Perhaps she should talk to a priest or read a book on the nature of love.
I'm with the guys on the EA or PA with her helper. Yep. That's what women do. Pigskin nailed it with Retrouvaille is more appropriate now than ever. That is so true. No matter what the two of you do after the weekend, you will communicate better, be nicer to each other, and understand each other better if you go through the weekend. And 44 hours is not too much time to devote to a ten year marriage with 2 children!
Ah, but wait. Does she know that they will ask if there is another party involved? Perhaps that is why she can't make the phone call. Because she will have to lie about OM to them
She is trying to ease you out of your home and your family with a shoehorn. Show her you are not her fool!
I came across your blog as I was perusing potential new clients. LOL. But after reading a portion of your thread I felt compelled to interject and hopefully help you find some clarity to a very tumultuous set of circumstances.
First I want to say I sympathize with your pain. I know it. I have been there myself. I have also dealt with others who have gone through much the same circumstances as you are going through right now. I myself have gone through divorce and found that sites like this can be helpful and comforting to some degree. It makes one feel that he or she is not alone during dark times.
I see, as usual, accusations are flying on these boards. However, I would like to point out a few things from a woman’s point of view and maybe help you gain some insight into what may be going on inside your W’s mind. After all, I was in the position of your W… I was the one who asked for D.
I read your W’s letter and from what I’ve read, it looks like this was a long process for her and not something that was impulsive or haphazard. I can also say I have an understanding of what she is going through because I have been in her shoes. As I’ve said, I was the one who wanted a D. There was no OM or A or even a troubled R up until the end. Keep in mind that every R has different facets to it, however they are all nonetheless similar.
During the last 2 years of M, I slowly ACCEPTED (yes, accepted) that I was not truly happy with H any longer. I came from an Italian family that always made the statement “Family is number one.” But, the reality of it for me was that happiness was number one. H was a bit of a lazy kind of guy - even though I didn’t see this until the final 2 years, after my realization. But, he put things off and always looked for me to handle everything. I didn’t mind at the time because I was the happy and obedient wife…always smiling and doing “the right thing” for everyone else. But the real moment for me came when we hit financial difficulties. At that time we were a family of three and I was finishing my degree while working full time. My work slowed down and I had to take a pay cut. After two months we ran out of reserve money and I really needed my H to get a second job because I was getting ready for my finals and had no time available. He did his “usual thing” and brushed it off, figuring it would blow over and all would be ok instead him of doing “the right thing” and finding another job. WRONG THING TO DO. His complacency and lackadaisical attitude did nothing more than to shine a big spotlight on who he truly was as a person. He did nothing for months and sat back while we headed further into financial ruin. He even had the nerve to lie to me that he was looking for jobs but, being a crafty devil ;-) I figured it out…he was hanging out with his friends. It was during this time period that I lost all respect for him. He was not the person I wished he was, wanted him to be. The problem was that during the easy, good times I was able to project onto him who I believed him to be. I believed he was this wonderful, caring, responsible, carefree person. But during the tough times, his true self came out. Or rather, I finally saw it. Not wanting to believe my new “view” of H, I gave more than adequate time (2 years) and made the effort to repair R after I graduated and started working in my field. But my heart was just no longer there. I no longer felt the same for him because I viewed him differently. For a time, I felt like a ghost just existing while fearing what I really wanted…OUT. And it wasn’t because of OM or EA or even a rocky R even though all of his friends thought I was having EA. He did confront me about an OM but he was wrong and that just made matters worse...I got angrier because he, in typical fashion, chose to blame everything else rather than take ownership of the problems he contributed to and in many cases caused. Even though he apologized and efforts were made on both our parts, the simple fact was that I no longer felt comfortable around him because he was a different person “to me” after this realization. It was like getting to know a totally new person. I know that sounds crazy but it really was. But in the end, and after getting to know this “new” person who was my H, I couldn’t go on pretending any longer. I couldn’t fake that I wanted to try to make things work out. I couldn’t fake that he was a different person from my point of view. I couldn’t take being in that situation. That is when I finally left.
Your W wrote that it was just something that happened over time. That could very well be true. I am not saying you have the same situation on your hands as I had… I am just trying to let you know that sometimes we don’t see the problems until it’s too late. And problems have a way of festering until they become cancerous tumors. The way it happened for me was Disappointment turned to annoyance turned to anger turned to spite turned to despise turned to numbness.
As for OM… Why do H’s ALWAYS think there is OM??? Guys, get real and stop making Orich feel worse than he already feels. M are so quick to blame everyone else…It’s NEVER the person staring back at them in the mirror.
Another word to you guys on OM and EA in general… If it has gone that far then there was something very wrong in the R long before that. So take a look at your own shortcomings.
Orich, If it is fixable, it will happen without forcing it. But it may not be the same R. W may not even be the same person that you fell in L with. You may not even be the same. I know these are tough possibilities at the moment, but you need to consider them.
Be strong but flexible. Be strong for yourself and your children. Be flexible as to acclimate yourself to new circumstances. Be cognizant of others who will be affected. But most of all do what is best for Orich and the kids even if it means walking away for now.
You have a lot of people caring about you on these boards and it seems that you’re a pretty good guy. And there aren’t many good guys out there!
Just one last word of encouragement… Both my ex and I got remarried and we both couldn’t be happier. So remember, it’s not the end until you give up on yourself!
I will pray for you to find strength. Just remember, strength does not mean stubbornness.
Damn, but I get sick of people assuming I'm a man.
Jess, if you hung around here much, you'd know that the majority of the guys around here take personal accountability and the need to make changes and continue growing as men, husbands, and fathers pretty seriously. Swanning in here, reading a PORTION of a thread written by someone in pain and then scattering accusations and assumptions based on your own personal experience (sample size = 1) .... not cool.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
None of us are saying that there is definitely another man involved. We are saying that there seems to be some familiar themes going on here that we have all experienced personally and witnessed in other M's. We are only saying there is a possibility of that being the case and to just be aware of it. That is all.
I hope that is not the case. But none of us know for sure. And I know I am right based on everything I have seen and read that more often than not, that is the case. Not always, but usually.
None the less, it doesn't change what Orich needs to do. And that is keep faith in God, DB, be the best dad in the world, work on himself, and become happy with himself in whatever he may have to face in the coming weeks, months, and years. Every day will be a challenge for some time. If pizza is what it takes to keep him going, then by gosh, eat that pizza. Just keep that energy up and work out so it doesn't all go to your belly. lol.
Kevin
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Holy crap. Scifi girl is right. She just described my W and I perfectly. That is the same exact set of circumstances, the only differenc is that I didn't know how bad it was financially because she did the bills and never communicated to me just how bad it was. So I didn't look for another job. Then we went bankrupt. After I found out, I did look for a job though and found one. But it was too late for her. I had a hand in this. OM didn't even come into the picture until she realized how unhappy she was. I share the burden of this mess. This he'll I am in is kind of like penance.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
I follow what you guys are saying. Here's teh question though.
Suppose one wants to find out if there are any unusual texts or other evidence of waywardness. Lets also suppose one has never had access to wayward's email account, cell phone records (through her job), or any other potential source. Let's also asssume wayward is not exhibiting ANY signs of A - not away from home when wayward should be there, wayward is at home on the weekends and does things with family and is not in a rush to move forward with D or kicking One out of the house.
First, does one upset what progress one has made DB'ing? Second, where does one look for said evidence/smoking gun?
If there's no probable cause, I don't see the percentage in snooping.
Because it has been my experience that when a woman exhibits the kinds of behaviors that Orich's wife is, there is another man involved more than 90% of the time. We'd be doing him no favors NOT to point that out.
The difference being that your W didn't tell you so you couldn't have known. My W did the same thing. She did the bills because she insisted on it since she didn't like the way I ran the budget. I actually made us live on a budget. She racked up 25k in debt behind my back. I asked her more than once, how are we doing? Do I need to get another job to help out? The answer was always, we are fine and and there is no need for another job. I found out later that was not the case at all. In Jess's situation her H was asked to get a second job and he preferred to hang out with his friends. That is not what you did. So that comparison really isn't there for that particular situation.
There could be similar if not close circumstances to you and Jess's situation in other areas.
Like I said, we don't know for sure if there is an OM involved. It just looks like a possibility. I hope and pray there is not. There may not be at all. Just don't be shocked if there is. Just try and protect yourself for anything that may happen. That doesn't mean give up or assume. Just be in a good position to be able to handle whatever comes up and start working on making yourself better.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Holy crap. Scifi girl is right. She just described my W and I perfectly. That is the same exact set of circumstances, the only differenc is that I didn't know how bad it was financially because she did the bills and never communicated to me just how bad it was. So I didn't look for another job. Then we went bankrupt. After I found out, I did look for a job though and found one. But it was too late for her. I had a hand in this. OM didn't even come into the picture until she realized how unhappy she was. I share the burden of this mess. This he'll I am in is kind of like penance.
Bullchit. Even if she was HORRIBLY unhappy, and it was ENTIRELY your fault (not likely), it doesn't excuse her decision to walk away. She had an obligation to sit you down and try to work at it. That would be the "for worse" part of the "for better or for worse," btw.
