I sort of let the underwear thing slide because there really is nothing you can do about it. H MIGHT have bought then because of OW. He MIGHT have bought them to see if he liked them. He MIGHT have bought then because he is nuts. He MIGHT have bought them to see if you would find them and question him. The thinking is NOT clear or right when they are like this. They are confused although you are not in the stage where you will HEAR this from them. That comes later. Your H is not at a point where you are going to see any major positive changes yet. But you can still work on you. One thing you have to decide for you, IF he is having an affair, is that something you can get past? Is that something you can forgive in the future? If you were to find out for certain, would that make any difference in what you want or in your love for him?
I will share that there have been at least 2ow in my sitch. Actually used to make me nuts, at least H said that was why, then a few months later said he never said that. It hurt like he**, but I survived it. I have forgiven H for that, don't ask how because I really don't know, especially since I hung onto some other stuff that wasn't as bad for a lot longer. My trust in H is at minus zero, but that isn't the reason why. I honestly don't know if trust is even the right word really. I expect nothing he says to be real right now, until there is an action to support it. I think that was something I had to work on for me because I was actually so trusting of H that if he said he would empty the dishwasher and then didn't, I would feel like he lied and betrayed me. H is not perfect by any means and neither am I but we both expected the other to be.
I was rereading my post about staying and your reply just a minute ago and I got something. Words and actions go together. You, like I did, are trying to convince yourself which direction is the best one. Well guess what, so are our H, which shows just how convicted they are in their decision. Mind you, they are also sort of trying to put the choice on us, which really isn't fair but... At this point, you really just have to work on the demons you are seeing within yourself. FOR YOU.
Why for you? Because as you change yourself, you will be less on his rollercoaster and more able to decide what YOU want. You will worry less about what others think of your choice. One of the nice things with this board, yes it is about saving M, but almost everyone here will support what ever choice you end up making for yourself and help you through if you let them. Yes they will also call you on what might be screwy thinking if they see it. They will challenge you so that you KNOW you are doing the right thing for yourself. So stop the it is probably too late thinking. Stop the it is all my fault. It always takes two. Always. But you can only control you and whether or not it saves your M, it will make you a better person.
And from someone much further down the road, I had a bad day yesterday. Still some stuff to work on in myself. Something with son, but stemming from H unfortunately. Sort of anyway. What did I do differently, I shared it with H. Told him I need his help. Was very clear what help I need as well. He seemed to receive it ok after his little fit of anger. I guess we will see down the road what happens with it. So see we all have bad days.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Hang in there!! Re: anger - I don't know if this applies, but see if you can poke around in the anger and see if it's really just a shield for feeling hurt. A lot of the time, that's what anger is - a protective mask for hurt.
Feeling hurt sucks, but in the end, I think the anger is more counter-productive. This may sound counter-intuitive, but if you're feeling hurt, *allow* yourself to feel hurt. Stuffing our feelings is part of what got all of us into this mess, right? It's ok to cry, it's ok to have a bit of a pity party - so long as you don't do it in front of him and so long as you don't don't over-indulge.
Give yourself a limited time - like half an hour or an hour, and let yourself experience the hurt. Set a timer if you have to. When the timer goes off, get out your list of GAL stuff or self-care activities and do something really nice for yourself. Do some positive self-talk about how you're worth it, you're working hard, you deserve it, you're a good person, etc.
Remember, whatever mistakes you've made in your sitch do not define you. They are not the sum of who you are. They are just mistakes. Ditto for him.
The trouble with having an open mind is that people put things in it.
My sitch - Divorce Busted! http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1804137#Post1804137
Thanks Cat. So good to hear from someone who`s been through a similar war.I`m ignoring the underpants. H is at a point where he`s trying to annoy me-blocking my cell phone f`rinstance, leaving his dirty socks on my dressing table, I just ignore it.
And last night he sprawled all over `my` bed(he sleeps in the guestroom) and told me to "go sleep on the floor like you siad you would". I just looked at him right through his eyes, gently, dropped my jeans and got into bed beside him. Said nothing. He left, disgusted. This is probably the fifth time we`ve had the "you go sleep downstairs" routine. I did offer to sleep on the floor but he had said then "I won`t have you doing that" I`ve made it very clear that he`s welcome to sleep in the bed-and he has when guests have been here or when he comes up for a nap on his own.
After he left, I got up to brush my teeth and he came back into the room. Fists closed.Closed fists are a sure sign of his anger-not that I even needed to see that to know that my Alien was at full throttle."Wots up" he said "I`m just getting ready for bed"I said. Then I looked at him again, in the eyes."H I really hate to see you burning yourself up with all this anger" "No you don`t"he said"I do" I kept my tone gentle-not afraid/not angry"You`re the cause of all of this" he said I didn`t reply. I just looked at him and he left the room.
So much anger. So much blame. I feel we`re getting nowhere very fast.
I`m glad Cat, that you found something to do differently in your sitch yesterday. It can be so easy to make a new pattern and fall into it so that our H`s know what to expect from us again. I`m trying to stay out of that. I feel H came up to me last night, fulling expecting a row.That then becomes his moment of triumph"look at you now. See how mad you get. Always putting me down" so I don`t do that. Looking into his eyes is my way of reaching for Old H who`s hiding in there somewhere.
S14 told me yesterday that they were not going to H`s homeplace this week end. There`s an annual event on there that H has never missed. My guess is that MIL told him not to come without me. Its a little more than a guess, one of my BIL`s told me a few weeks ago that she had threatened to tell H not to come if he doesn`t bring me. I felt like telling H to defy her on that one. She can`t be making decisions for him. But then I can`t either! and I`m not going to control, or even ask him what happened. I hope just to find some way of coping with his anger over the w`end.
Dia, one of my difficulties is having the pity party. I just hate to lie around wracked by sobs. i hate to feel the pain. I do find I`m loving music even more. Just when you`re in the painful place you senses are just so acute, I can feel every note. So I keep my tears behind sunglasses when I`m listeing to music and on the road.
Yeah, he`s a big hurt boy. I`ve said it for years to him, he comes to two forms -Spaniel, all sad droopy eyes, woe is me mode and Rottweiller, full of anger. When the Rottweiller is out you`ve to be very careful how you poke about.
But, hey, I actually had a great day yesterday.Especially glad that I got two new albums, got lots done with the kids, had fun too!Pretty much hit on all my GAL goals(lucky to be on eight weeks hols at the moment too!).
Mach, if you get a chance to post I`d appreciate it. Since I started LRT-end of April I think, H has just pulled away even more. Its as if my detaching from him, my getting on and having a life, has made him angrier.
I noted this as I journalled it here. Specifically, each week he would do things to try to drive me crazy lock me out of my bedroom,leave the lawn uncut, leave the electricity bill out unpaid for me to see, plus the letter threatening to disconnect us(he always paid it). More recently hae has stolen my credit cards from my purse, locked my mobile phone. Oh and he denies doing any of these things till he`s blue in the face before eventually caving in.
Of course I knew(learnt the hard way) not to react to these things in crazy mode. Just assert my position gently or ignore them depending on the situation. the buttons he`s hoping to press are my angry/upset ones. He may also be hoping I`ll make a decision on the direction of the relationship as he can`t make a deicision to save his life. But I`m not going there anymore either.
Have to say I`m far happier in this detached place. I don`t value my life in terms of the success of my M anymore. I can see all the other little bits have a joy in them separate from my M woes and I`m(most of the time!) revelling in that.
I`m also working with my therapist and ways to heal my end of me that has caused my part in the M breakdown.
I am concerned though where H`s sneakiness and anger may take him in trying to get at me. Or should I just drop those negative expectations too?
I can't wait to see Mach's response to this. My own experience, yes H got angrier when I seemed to be happier. I didn't really do LRT, at least not intentionally, I bent over backwards to just keep the peace, do whatever he asked, and stay out of his way. Until recently. So LRT seems to for the most part be having a different effect. Going silent at first brought out more cruelty than I thought was possible. My cell phone was searched, "my" room was searched, the trash was searched, years old school term papers were read to be used against me. When I wouldn't fight back, boy that was a nightmare. Be careful. After a while, H changed his tactic. Suddenly it was ok to talk, to do things, to be nice until I seemed comfortable simply getting along, and then the barrage of crap started again. I was wrong for being nice. I swear they are just nuts. That for the most part seems to have faded, or at least he doesn't take it out on me anymore, with one exception last month. But it didn't work. He has always had a bit of a temper so it is something that will probably be a part of any R he has, hopefully just not so bad as it has been.
Good for you for not telling him to go if his mom told him not to. They want someone to make their choices. They try to force it, at least our H seem to have that in commom. If he chooses to follow her instructions, eventually he will have to put the blame on her and not you. I would stop talking with her as much as possible if I were you. Then NOTHING can come back to you as your idea. Eventually, they should look at what the real issues are. I don't know if they will or not. I told H I will protect my S from MIL, she too is nuts, but that what he did was up to him. So he seems to be doing as little as possible to not be seen as the bad guy, but not really reaching out to her either. (That is a strained relationship at best, her doing not mine or H's.) She has tried to repair it but H has been smart enough to see that she has not changed herself and it will not be a different type of relationship any time soon.
If you can, I can't link, find Happy Again's threads in the the MLC archives. He originally posted as Finally Free. I think it was around 06. Boy if you want to see what anger looks like from inside the MLCer, that will show it to you. He was angry at everything, including and especially at his W for making the changes that she did.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Phew! Cat. Think I`ll brace myself for a storm then! Thanks so much for sharing. I was going to bail out tomorrow, just to avoid him but now I think it best that I don`t do that either. Just be me, strong in my space, doing what I`d planned to do.
Glad I`ve some xanax on standby for if the going gets tough.
I never contact MIL by the way, before or now. She has started ringing since she heard from H about his marital woes. I`ve said as little as possible and switched subjects and am no longer in contact with any of H`s family over this-though of course, am as friendly as ever with them. Miss them,actually as I don`t get to see them as often now. But that`s ok too.
The anger that you are seeing from him can be attributed to YOU getting a life and moving forward. From where he stands now, his life is spiraling downward and your's appears to be heading forward. That is a good thing for you, and at this point....A who cares for him.
It's like I told Hopeful a while ago, the more rope you give, the more they take. The steadier YOU not only appear, but are, the more it confuses them, and makes them analyze their own luggage.
All of that anger and resentment is a result of them not being able to process their own emotions, and yes, they do get very angry at the whole....why are they changing now thing.
This shouldn't affect your actions though. By standing, we represent to them that we still love them deeply, and are willing to make things work. By our ACTIONS, we tell them this daily. If what we say, out of anger FROM us, or frustration, or resentment, or wherever it comes from, doesn't match what we do, then we can appear to be the same old same old to them.
That's what I mean about using that anger as a shield instead of a sword. Anger can be a good thing at times. It is how we CHOOSE to use it that makes the difference.
As a shield ? We can stand back and accept and love a little more each day. Deflect the hurtful statements they use to justify this.
As a sword ? We CHOOSE to not do the work and be the same person that dragged us into this in the first place.
I know I needed to be different as a person to become me again. I had to look deep within me to find what I had lost inside. I had lost my humor, my compassion,and much more before the bomb. What I CHOSE to do with that was to dig deep and find all of things that I had lost.
I took my time to really focus on what I had to do.
What I'm getting at here is that I'm not convinced that you are doing a full LRT.....and even if you wanted to, LRT is often the most misunderstood thing that people talk about here...
I would consider you very dark, but not LRT.
LRT, although it is called a technique, It really isn't...
LRT is more a way of life for the LBS. It is when you can pull the plug, walk away and not look back. When you can talk about this with the same vigor as walking to the mailbox..
There is way too much anger in you for that. And as long as there is anger when you think of everything that has happened, then you are not able to LRT. And you need to be careful if you think you are, cause it will backfire on you and you may actually get what you ask for instead of what you want.
FG, from what I read of eveything, it appears to me that you are not even fully detached, let alone able to LRT. To be fully detached and just live for you and your children, is a HARD thing to do.
Detaching is a state of mind, and becomes very peaceful for you. It is when you can truly do things, not to induce a reaction, but rather regardless of the reaction. Because they are things for you and the well being of you and your children.
It doesn't mean you can't love from that place, just means you love from a distance and give the gift of them finding themselves.
For me ? If that was me ? That is your bed, and this is not your decision to be in this position. If he doesn't like that, then he needs to be the one to make that adjustment.
Sounds like to me that you need to understand the impact of a firm boundry...and implement correctly.
The anger ? Script.
The snooping from HIM ? I think most MLC'ers search, and search hard for something that will relive their guilt. Something to alleviate their hurt, and if YOU are doing those things, then it is okay for them to do those things.
What you may be experiencing is the shift of control happening. His cards are all on the table now, and he is curious about things that you are doing when you are not there. He senses HIS control leaving, and the threat of what is happening is hitting home for him. Him saying hurtful things is no longer a button for him to push to get you to react negativly.
Those are normal things that go on in this process, as long as you are not fake and doing things just as a ploy to "win" him back.
This is one of the reasons why your changes have to be real and have to be for you, so that they become a part of you that is better than it was before.
You are doing well FG, but as a DB'er, now, everyday is a day to wake up and strive to be better....and you can
S14 told me yesterday that they were not going to H`s homeplace this week end. There`s an annual event on there that H has never missed. My guess is that MIL told him not to come without me. Its a little more than a guess, one of my BIL`s told me a few weeks ago that she had threatened to tell H not to come if he doesn`t bring me. I felt like telling H to defy her on that one. She can`t be making decisions for him. But then I can`t either! and I`m not going to control, or even ask him what happened. I hope just to find some way of coping with his anger over the w`end.
I know I didn't respond to this, and I'll tell you why.
I tend to post from a philisophical place than one of everyday advice.
This has to be your decision, not mine or anyone else's. Nobody here knows what is happening in your life as well as you do.
But...If it were me ? If you wanted to go, then do it, but use the same attributes around them as you do him.....You never know who is a direct hotline back to him.
Don't do it as a ploy, be real, be yourself....
If you don't want to go ? Then don't.
But don't worry how this will affect him...
You have no clue what his bottom is, and to wonder is fruitless effort on your part....
What a wonderful reply. Words that I couldn't seem to find today. Know what is funny, I was trying to explain to someone else, not on here, this morning, what detatched was to me. I hate the term LRT. Because that is, for me, done.
I will share some stuff on a day to day basis, sort of, simply to show others that they are not alone. From a female perspective, excessive anger, borderline abuse, is something that we are told to walk away from no if's, and's, or but's. But in this situation, even with H who were tempermental in the past, the anger in MLC can be so much worse. And when you feel like you are the only one who has experienced it, well, your self esteem goes to pot quicker than any other way.
Fallgirl,
I was not trying to scare you. I was simply wanting you to see you are not alone. I hid H's treatment of me for years, it wasn't so horrible most of the time that it was a very slow process of me seeing MY part in allowing it. Only when MLC and it got really really bad, did I even begin to see it for what it was. I went into protective mode, which is where I think you are now, but that did help me to figure out MY boundaries, like Mach is suggesting you do. In some ways, even though I really wish we didn't have to travel this road, I am so grateful for it because of what it has done for me. Took time, still things to work on, may never be a totally finished product but getting better every day.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Hang in there, Sweetie. Listen, this is hard stuff. The sooner you learn to go about your life and not worry about him, the better off you'll be.
You could not have a better person than Mach on your thread. Read his post to you a couple of times and let it sink in.
Then, continue of this journey. You will find so many things you never realized about yourself and when you implement the changes you want to, you will feel so much better about YOU!
