And, as far as the support question, much like in job hunt situations, give her a reasonable high to low range. Make sure the low is really where you are comfortable. The best way to diffuse this is to put something out there. If you are willing to take less, what is it already?
Me 45, H 46, S 23, M 26, Together 30, Bomb 6-2-08, S 6-19-08; H left 12-29-08. H home 12-09, Still MLC in 2012! Me- I have my big girl panties on. Bring it.
as far as the support question, much like in job hunt situations, give her a reasonable high to low range.
That was it in a nutshell, wasn't it? The familial division-of-labor was she did the books, I didn't, because she didn't trust me (or anyone other than the tax accountant) to do them.
So when, out of the clear blue, she demanded a number -- high, low, whereveryago -- I had absolutely no idea what anything cost. I could've said a million dollars a month -- and not have known if that was enough or not, so to speak.
I asked, in one of our rare lucid talks, that she prepare a spreadsheet for me with creditors, people we pay, income, outgo -- you know, a balance sheet -- and once I had that, I told her, in plain English, I would have the information I needed to "name my price."
Well. To quote that esteemed philosopher, Gomer Pyle, USMC: Surprise, surprise, surprise. She never delivered. No, I was just supposed to "know" and "name my price."
And now that The Mouthpiece is involved, of course, that's not going to happen.
Aww.. nothing like show tunes to guide one through life! Lots of truth amidst song and dance.
You're the type of guy that makes me want to kiss the booboo, shake the pompoms and whack that thick skull of yours simultaneously.
The question of alimony? From my experience, accept nothing less than what is allowed by law. There are no guarantees of future employment, you will have the kids the majority of the time, and while trying to maintain the family home (purchased based on a substantially higher income) you'll slide steadily deeper in debt. The standard splits were not set up to 'go for the jugular', that's her frenzied perception, her chain to rattle.
In the marriage I trusted my spouse to have my best interests in mind, as I had for him. In the divorce process he only cared how it effected him. The substantial change of lifestyle for the kids didn't matter. It was all about him, "HIS" money.
This is Ms. Darkly's phobia, a consequence of her actions. Do NOT take a dime less that what is considered fair and equitable. Do you know why, Dark Smiles? She's not looking out for you. And alimony is severance pay. In Connecticut they do an 'unallocated alimony and child support' which seems to make the pill a little easier to swallow. Here.. fair and equitable for my ex's income bracket was 40% of his gross income in unallocated child support/alimony. When our youngest (the only one who qualifies for child support) is 21, the support will be reviewed at which time I'll probably be eligible for 30% of his income as alimony. As an aside, he does not give the two older boys anything, birthday presents included/cards.
Anyway.. negotiating the alimony (severance pay) is the reason why God created lawyers. This is a hot button for your wife. I mean really. Instead of always abetting her perception, how about this one:
"Honey, how can I go for the jugular when you've cut me off at the knees?"
Giving yourself space... Hellzapoppin'. Not replying to every email/text.. Wicked. Having a spouse free day... Fantastik(s)! Learning from all this... Kismet..
How about a lil Holly Golightly?
*hugs*
Financial affidavits will solve that problem.. a must in every divorce. You get to itemize all your spending (the more the better, usually) for the kids, yourself and household expenses. The lawyers and judge look at both (yours and your wife's) to determine what's fair.
It's down to brass tacks. Get the basic info from all fixed expenses, monthly, etc and see what really happens. It's amazing! Each company (electrical, cable, etc,) can usually give you a year or two's worth of info with each month's costs. If she doesn't give you the facts, you get them yourself. And Quicken is a great way of downloading all the financial info from all your bank accounts, credit cards and categorizing your spending. Nifty tool.
It's down to brass tacks. Get the basic info from all fixed expenses, monthly, etc and see what really happens. It's amazing! Each company (electrical, cable, etc,) can usually give you a year or two's worth of info with each month's costs. If she doesn't give you the facts, you get them yourself. And Quicken is a great way of downloading all the financial info from all your bank accounts, credit cards and categorizing your spending. Nifty tool.
OrangeDog likes this!
Your own numbers will be worth more than a fifth Ace up your sleeve during the negotations.
Besides, you need to know this stuff anyway for your own budgeting. (O'Dog now regrets he let W do finances while married. She sucked at it.)
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
Hi DQ - I am not convinced that SPs missus is passive aggressive. She told SP she was leaving, gave him a date, bought a house. It seems she is not game playing at all. she has told SP what she is doing and has gone and done it.
I think that should it come to light ( and I doubt it ) that there was is no other man , then she has been up front and honest. As a WAS - very very rare. Smart
She wants to get stuff sorted and now, so she can get on. She is obviously a person who drives for what she wants.
I absolutely agree with you on SP being passive aggressive. He is with even us on these posts. I dont think SP likes to lose or not have control over the situation. My word he has no control with MRS SP. I believe that SP hides behind his bravado or mojo. He aint let go, he has not even loosened his grip.
When you have detached , nothing else matters but your own well being. To drag out answers to questions or requests that relate to stuff, is only hanging on. To me this drags out the ugly feelings and puts you further back in Dbing efforts.
If WAS is unreconcilitery then work on yourself. ANYTHING that cant be taken with you in the after life is just stuff.
SP how did you support yourself before your wife ? I understand that you must consider the children's needs but what is with this spousal support and forever !
If i remember right, it was you that wanted children. From what we know about your wife ( and only from you ) she does not come across as someone who would not shrugg off her responsibility, at least financially.
To respond also to the person who questioned my statement on affairs, abuse etc.
Most WAS need a crutch to use to get away. Not in a milly second am I saying it is right. WAS need to have an excuse that makes them seem that they are doing the right thing for all concerned. It helps rationalise the craziness.
Sorry SP if i seem harsh but living in a country that offers spousal support in only limited situations, I feel that it may just be another excuse for lawyers to duke out. I by no means speak of child support. The children should be provided for financially so that they maintain their standard of living.
Yes, well I am leaving it to the lawyers. In the US, alimony / support / maintenance rules vary by state. In general the proposition is that the LBS is still able to maintain the "lifestyle to which accustomed" -- in other words, WAS doesn't get to maintain her/his WAS-like Ways while LBS goes to the poor house. The presumption being that WAS would not have achieved WAS's status were it not for the contributions made by LBS.
In Coastal State, for marriages under 10 years, support is ordered by the state for one-half the duration of the marriage; anything over 10 years is considered "lifetime" support, defined in Coastal State as "until death or next marriage." All "community" assets and liabilities -- everything held by the family -- is divided 50/50.
It is very unlikely that a court would order "literal" lifetime support, however, other than in exceptional cases.
The amount of support is computed by a very complicated formula, over which judges have a great deal of discretion. CHILD support, on the other hand, is based on a fixed formula.
Quote:
In the marriage I trusted my spouse to have my best interests in mind, as I had for him. In the divorce process he only cared how it affected him.
That's about as good a description as I think you're going to find anywhere of the entire World of DB.
How did I support myself before I was married? By carrying a rifle in the forces. But with 2 kids, and 25 years' worth of mileage, that's not an option anymore. Though I did have a very exciting job offer in Afghanistan the other day. But it's 1 year, no leave, so that's 1 year, no kids.
Oh I would question a womans 'lifeime ' need for spousal support as well.
I know spousal support is based on the presumption that WAS would never get to the level of carreer achievement without LBS support ...but likeI am wise if LBS is in fact the primary child minder , I believe that they ahave been blessed with the best life of all. Without WAS support LBS would never of had the privelage and joy of spending so much time with kids.
However , I questioning the need to negotiate this lifetime thing. Would she be more happy with a cut off date in line with youngest child turning 18. Could the LBS not of trained, studied began work in that time. Spousal support could support the lazy and non achievers.
I take my reward for support in a more equitable division of relationship property. That way I am free of WAS and independent was in turn gives me much more confidence and self esteem than I would if i was hanging on to every dollar a WAS ( who no longer loved me ) earned !
Remember lawyers take a non emotive approach to divorce. They are not interested in the fact that the future needs to bring some sort of relationship between parties.
It is very unlikely that a court would order "literal" lifetime support, however, other than in exceptional cases.
I think that sort of covers the matter, don't you?
Bear in mind, too, that the courts can compel either (or both) spouses to be independently evaluated by a court-appointed vocational counselor. If, for example, a Vo-Co found that I could be more gainfully employed elsewhere, with negligible impact upon the children, then the court could order me to switch jobs with a concurrent reduction (or elimination) in alimony.
However, I am told by a retired family law judge (48 years' divorce experience) that he has never once seen a court order someone in my line of work to find new employment because we provide a societal benefit, and the ultimate intent of divorce law is to insulate society from the effects of marital dissolution (i.e., by providing for spousal support so that LBS's don't go on welfare).
The other challenge for a Vo-Co is that there aren't a lot of places where I can do what I do, and the court would order alimony before it ordered me to leave the children and move out-of-area for the sake of WAW's finances. The Afghanistan job, for example, would eliminate alimony entirely -- it pays nearly WAW's salary -- but really -- is the judge going to sit up there and say, "The Court finds that Smiley's Person must leave his children -- who will be cared for by a nanny or au pair since Mrs. SP works -- and go 9,000 miles to a place where he stands a very good chance of being killed in order to protect Mrs. SP's finances"?
Yyyyyyeeeeah -- not so much.
Frankly, I would have gone for the "until age-18" approach in any event -- the gods know I don't want that much connection to WAW. But she went to the mattresses before I could finish running the numbers, so f*ck her -- I'll let MY $450 USD/hour lawyer go ahead and ejjicater.
Dig it. Darkly Darkly's got a horse in this race, too. And this guy says the horse can do.
Just a random thought. Kids spent last night with WAW. I couldn't get out of bed to save my own life this morning. And I was struck that that's a pattern; whenever they're with Mom, I am useless. I veg in front of the teevee, I fiddly-fart around the Internets Tubes, I don't produce. I wonder if there's not a kind of "situational depression" that happens to people from time-to-time? I hate it when they're not around, even though when they're around they make me mental. Maybe it's just the symbolism of the absence. Kids are gone; marriage is gone.
