When I read your posts I just say to myself, so true, so right, yes that is exactly how I feel. Today the pain from the comments, actions/etc., is gone.
I have been spacing out so much lately just trying to picture my life alone or H staying or H coming back. And, at this point to just be alone for a little while would be a welcome luxury. Right now I don't want H to stay because so much has been said, done, emotions/pain is raw. No doubt both yourself and Peace have been there done that...
Both you and Peace raised very good points. Peace raised the issue of results of our DB'ing, that it really kind of allows the H to know we will be there if nothing else - as friends. I, myself, am totally starting to question this whole DB in and of itself after reading several posts. I do believe DB in general is good, it certainly makes you feel as though you are not alone, it certainly gives you hope your marriage can survive and it does tell you to take care of yourself, change things about yourself, etc. These are all positives. However, at a certain point, if DB'ing has not produced results and the spouse continues to exhibit behavior that is inappropriate in a marriage, talk D, threaten to leave, etc. do we just allow them to have their affair, run away and seek out their lost youth? Or, do we say "look this is inappropriate behavior, I have done everything possible within reason to reach out, admit my faults, be supportive and to let you know I would like the marriage to work; however, up until this point you have done absolutely nothing positive to improve any aspects of our marriage and frankly your behaviors/actions are totally hurtful, inappropriate and unacceptable". I don't know the answer but I feel like labeling the spouse as MLC almost gives them license to behave this way. It certainly helps for this group to understand the behaviors and recognize them but as my Telephone Counselor once said when I was telling her I thought my H was in MLC, she just said it doesn't really matter. She later on did indicate that yes, H seemed to be exhibiting these behaviors, but I keep going back to that statement am I treating H with kid gloves because I feel sorry he is going through MLC and would like to be supportive if he does crash and burn and want to come back? Does labeling them MLC somehow give them an illness where we feel the need to take care of them or allow them to act in such a manner? At some point, I just feel like hey, many women would just have drawn a line in the sand said get out! Again, don't know the answer and maybe that would damage any ability for them to come home.
I just get to the point where I start to think why do women have to be so strong, and why do these white males get by with so much inappropriate behavior and forgiven? Don't get me wrong I love my H very much and for the majority of our marriage have been very happy. I also know marriages can survive OW and can come back together and am hoping myself that is the end result; however, knowing in advance it may take years and all the extra work that is required of us to make this happen is it reasonable and really in our best interest?
Sorry, rambling as thoughts pop in and out. Just questions I have and no doubt you both have probably thought about.
I had hoped BeingMe your camping trip had produced a more intimate exchange with your H and I can understand how you are anxious for that part of your marriage to be back. You are also correct when you commented I have been, well I'll just say it, mothering of my H. I am guilty of being the one everyone can depend on, a caring/nurturer. And, I am basically comfortable with that role as long as someone doesn't take advantage of my kindness and laid back approach to life. But H is and has been and I believe it contributed to getting to this juncture in our marriage. I honestly think I would have been better off months ago to give an ultimatum. Again, will never know or if I did and that went badly I would be sorry I handles it that way. I just feel H knows how forgiving and loving I am and cannot really understand the consequences if he leaves. He probably feels like I will be there waiting so what the heck I'll go and do what I want and if it doesn't work than Chel will take me back.
So ladies, advice do I give an ultimatum (leave without D or go to 2-day counseling session with Michelle in Boulder);or, do I continue not to show him how upset he makes me, don't bring up any R or D talk unless H brings up? This also includes me making plans for my future on my own.
And, you both may have already answered this question but I am a slow learner and unbelievably still looking for hope. But, to-date have never given H an ultimatum as with DB this has not been advised.
Slowing going dark, Chel
M 42 H 41 M 16 yrs. Together 20 yrs. Bomb 5/16/09 Working on financial D papers
No looking back or having regrets because we cannot change anything, no sense beating ourselves up.
So, at this juncture I have an appt. with potential attorney on Friday and I have the financial paperwork 75% complete and if I feel comfortable with the attorney I will retain her and give her the financial paperwork to review on my behalf. In the meantime, my H figured out we could do D paperwork ourselves. I had told him repeatedly we could D without attorneys at all; because H was adamant we only needed one attorney (of course the one H picked for himself). H has put that information in the pile of D paperwork without saying anythings but it was clearly added to the pile and no doubt he is aware I've seen them.
So, now my current issue is whether I just confront this head on or continue to dance around any R or D talk as long as I can and just continue to make plans for my future without H? Half of me wants to sit down tonight and say the following: Look, you have put money down on an apt. in Montreal, you obviously want a D and you will not agree to any counseling and for all purposes are done with this marriage. So, here is the deal - if you want to D without attorneys than you are going to do the D filing, etc. I will complete information where required and will sign without dragging this out; or, if we go the other route we will both retain our own attorneys. My big concern is our joint mutual funds and any future tax consequences that is why I would be in favor of attorney route. Also, this means that any wifely duties I may have been doing up and until this time is over. There will be no meals, no sleeping together, no grocery shopping, etc. for your benefit. So, if you would like to get going now, as BeingMe mentioned let H go to Montreal and worry about D later because there is no way this will resolved wrapped up before his target leave date of late August. Also, if H has intention of still changing his mind he would need to agree to the 2 day Therapy session in Boulder with Michelle Weiner-Davis. H needs to know when he goes I will be considering this a loss, will grieve and than will have to get on with a life alone. I will have to get a new job, a new place to live and new friends, etc. I would indicate I would not ignore him if he did contact me and if there were every any chance he had made a mistake, wanted to come back and I was in agreement with that, he would have to make the appointment with Michelle in Boulder first and we would have to date, start all over again.
