Boy you have really made me think about my answer to that one. First please understand, everyone's journey is different and what is right for one person is not necessarily right for someone else, so ultimately, all of your choices are yours.
When bomb 1 hit in 07, we agreed to work on it. After a year, things hadn't changed much except that we really were further apart than every. So one year ago this month, bomb 2 hit, sort of from both of us. Of course, as soon as the crap hit, I knew it wasn't really what I wanted, it was just running from all of the pain, but I saw no other way out. I came to DB, mostly to heal myself and that is what I spent most of last fall doing. For made up reasons, neither H or I left the house. I healed. I found my faith returning very strongly. I was told many things during that time, that I had to choose, that it was going to be hard and painful. Well, I couldn't do any of those things to be quite honest because I was busy waiting for H to choose (still really had no clue about MLC although some others had suggested it to me.) I met someone, virtually, developed a friendship. H knew. Didn't care, even encouraged it. That friendship lasted for a few months. It really was simply a friendship that if circumstances were different could have been more. I spent a lot of time talking about H, M, seeing beyond the last two years. Additionally at the time, I was learning a lot more about MLC, really saw H in everything I read. My heart started to open, in great part because of my friend and others that I met during that time as well. I learned that I was a person and had worth. I also started to see H as a person again. Many of the friends I made then have gone by the wayside. That is ok, they served their purpose in my life, which was to help me see me again. I don't know if I would have gone on that path without them. So sometime during January, I finally began truly working on myself from a place that had nothing to do with H. I had already done my rehashing of my role in the R, like you plan to do, and knew what changes I needed to make but until then was still unable to do it.
I had stopped posting here a few months earlier because H was reading everything and then doing things that I would post about. But I continued reading. I read every post of Snodderly's, Heart's Blessing, as well as others. I read other websites. I prayed a lot. I meditated and listened to my Angels and guides. I listened to God. I came more to know that leaving (although H would probably say we were/are separated) was not the right thing for me to do. I have made many changes in myself, I think mostly because I have come back to a place of peace within myself, that I lost a long time ago. I want to say it was in March that I stated my choice to myself and God. Then again in April, it was made clearer to me what I was choosing. Then in June, my final detatching happened and it was articulated very clearly to H. Through all of this, I have been able to much more clearly see the MLC stuff, the real beginning of it, the underlying causes of it, and what more I need to work on in myself. I see H as a person now, a person who is full of pain, but I see steps he is making for him. I know for now what I will and won't do in regards to ending this M, but I also know and accept that I may be shown to take different steps in the future. I accept that what is happening in the long run is for both of our highest and best good.
So I guess the short answer is when I got past my own ego, and listened to my heart, that is what made my choice to still be here. Would it have been less painful to leave? Maybe or at least painful in a different way. I could never, sort of like you, seem to choose that and feel good about it. I too questioned why I was still here, and that was my ego talking. Not wanting to be a doormat, not wanting to be played a fool, not wanting to look stupid to my family and friends who don't understand why I am still here. But I would have always felt like I made a mistake if I had chosen that path AT THAT TIME. I would not have the peace I have now. Sure I still have down days, but I do my best to not let my anger or frustration linger or dictate my choices. I wait until those feelings have passed to make any choice now. I have learned unconditional love. Not by my choice, but the idea and examples of it have been put in my face at every turn for the last 6 months. I kinda figured maybe that was one of the lessons I needed to learn from this after a while. Ok, written way too much here and I'm sure way more than you were looking for but I wanted to share the process because there are just no easy answers.
Last edited by cat04; 07/21/0907:53 PM.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
You`ve described very well everything I`ve been feeling through all of this. Actually articulated some of my thoughts, particularly the reason I feel I`m still here: "Not wanting to be a doormat, not wanting to be played a fool, not wanting to look stupid to my family and friends who don't understand why I am still here"
My family can`t understand why I`m putting up with H and his behaviour towards me. Though they`re not pulling against me. H`s family love and support both of us too.
Really it`s both of us who have got us in this mess. It remains to be seen if I can pull us out of it.
Yesterday was just so incredibly painful. I barely saw H. Got one terse text re my son`s appointment-actully he just forwarded a text from the hosp-didn`t even comment himself.So cold.
I made the most of the day with the kids-made sure they were having fun while I barrelled on with housework/separation work.Then I brought the younger two to a new playground in a pretty seaside village I hadn`t been to in years. All I could see were involved fathers, family scenes and loving couples! God, I just felt so sore and lonely.
We were home late-I didn`t want to be at home when H came in. But he wasn`t there anyway.I had to ring him-to see if he coould pick up S14. He couldn`t so I said no prob i`d do it. I was gone for an hour. In that time H returned home-and went again!
All his actions now are of one who wants out.I know he`s baiting me to articulate re S but I`m not. One of his gripes were that he was living everyone else life, not doing what he wanted.Fails to see that he couldn`t make a decision to save his life.Well, I`m not making this one for him. This means that we could drag on like this for YEARS.
I found new underwear yesterday-his. Slinky black boxers. And I`d spent YEARS trying to convince him that his off white Y fronts and vests were disgusting.Feel like burning them in a nice big bonfire along with all the face creams, expensive shirts and jumpers he`s got lately.
Also find myself fantasising about hiring a hit gang to `take care` of him while he`s off one one of his interminable errands some evening.
Yes, Cat I get that he`s in pain. I can still see right past Alien to the hurting man underneath.
But right now, I`m just struggling with my own pain and looking for ways to assuage that. Trying to keep on the DB balance beam too but its hard and I`m falling off all the time.
Jeff, Mach, Snodderly, Stormrider, Mindblank, thanks for jumping in yesterday. Really appreciate your reading this.
Jeff--probably the same one, please call her. I can't get there right now and it is really bad. Might not make Christmas. I feel like I'm failing her as a friend. I won't be able to do for her what she has asked me to do if it got to this.
Fallgirl,
The big stuff here. I know it is hard to enjoy your kids without seeing "families" and feeling really bad. That will pass as you take your focus off of what you had, and look at what you still have with your kids. I'm sure that you did things with them before this without H and the only real difference now is that you feel you can't share it with him now or that you might not have that again. My best advice, what works for me, is that I figure, H isn't here, he is missing out, I love my son and I am not going to let him ruin that as well. Maybe a little selfish, but it works. I share with him if I feel like it, except for really important stuff and even then because at one point he actually had the nerve to attack my mothering skills. I don't rely on him to pick son up from anything or take him anywhere anymore. For a while that was fine and then I decided that I was "helping" H stay stuck and even if I knew he had a hard day or whatever, he could play chauffer just as easily, easier actually, than I could. So for a bit, even when he would ask me to do it, unless he had a really good reason, I wouldn't. Now we sort of work it out. Again making him responsible for his life I guess.
I went through a phase of not cooking and not doing laundry. I still don't do the laundry at all. Although recently I have told him that all he has to do is ask. I do cook now when I feel like it. I do one of two things, I either just make enough, or I let him know what I'm making and let him decide whether he is going to eat or not. I am not his mother but was often accused of acting like it and I did. Why? Because I am a caregiver so it was natural for me to just do it. And H, like most men, let me step right into that roll.
You know what, I don't want to be his mother. I never did. What did it do for me? It made me FEEL like his mother. It made me feel like a housekeeper, secretary, cook, and definately NOT a wife. Sex, although really good, was not a priority for me and felt more like a job. I eventually resented H and the chores and even the sex because they were expected. I resented that he didn't do the same for me but really why should he have done those things, when I did it all? And why should he look at me the same either? I was no longer a sexy exciting woman who wanted to please him in every way, I was a woman who b*tched when the trash wasn't taken out, who begrudginly did what was expected in the bed, and did and said a lot of the same things that his mother actually did in regards to him. If he did good things around the house, he got rewarded, just like my son. If he didn't do what I wanted or asked, he got punished just like our son.
That is one of my goals and something that I feel, even though I was afraid at first that it would make H feel like I loved him less than he already thinks I do, might make a difference in the outcome of this. If not, the next man in my life will never be married to his mother and if that is what he wants, he will have to find another woman LOL. I have, am still working on, becoming a WOMAN again. WIFE is a title but not my goal any longer. As hard as it has been, and it has been difficult (although I don't seem to do anything the easy way LOL), I have lost weight and actually maintained (although I really didn't need to lose any according to others, for me, I was not happy where I was), I have actually gotten myself clothes that fit and are sexy. I no longer look at things and ask myself if it is something a mother would wear, if it is appropriate for my age. If I like it and think it looks good on, then I buy it. I go places that I enjoy, even if I go alone. I do my hair, wear makeup and jewelry. I stop the disgusting men thoughts when people look at me when I am out. I listen to my body and rest when I need too, play when I need to, and work when I need to.
Yes I feel like my housework has slid some but that is actually a 180 for me because I used to be totally nuts if things were not perfect, I just could not relax. I also do NOT try to hide my feelings most of the time. I used to think H would think I was weak if I cried, and I would stuff everything and it would then come out as anger when it was really simply frustration with myself most of the time. I was tired. Tired of always being strong, always trying to take care of everyone, always setting an example for my son. So now, if I need to cry or laugh or whatever, I do it.
I too remember getting annoyed, and I still do sometimes, when H does something that I always wanted him to do but never would. It is part of his growing process and I try not to take it personally. No we have had no new underwear, although I might like that LOL. But he has done things like shave his private parts. At first it freaked me out, but now he is actually keeping it the way I like it so... He is growing up. I am watching it in amazement. But you know what is funny...as mothers, our goal is for our children to grow up and become self sufficient and make decisions for themselves. In our M, that has not really happened and if you look at it for what it is, we resent right now that our H are trying to do just that. But unless you want to be married to a perpetual child, or be divorced, you have to let go and let it happen. Trust the process to be the best thing for all of you. The outcome is unknown, but that is how life works. Even the best laid plans don't always have the expected result.
There are several things you have to keep in mind in this. You did not get here overnight (even if it seems like it) and you won't get out of this overnight. The old M is gone, even if you reunite, it will be a whole new relationship. You have to work on you, regardless of H. As long as what you do does not damage your kids, you have to do what you need. Even if he doesn't like it. In the beginning, it is like just keeping busy and marking time. I think that is part of what is frustrating. But you are NOT just marking time. You have to LIVE for yourself. As that happens, you will see things clearer. You will become more able to decide what you want, not to just stop the pain, not to manipulate the situation or to "wake him up", but because you will just know. Believe me, there have been times when I have wanted to just tell him, I've had enough and it is time for you to get your head out of your a** and come back to real life, I'm done playing, but that wouldn't work. I would be mommy again.
And you know what? I'm good where I am right now, but I can always change this. I CAN leave if I want to. So can he. So my life is not in his hands or at his mercy and he doesn't make all of the rules, even if it may seem like he does. You can do this. You HAVE to do this. It is like getting strapped into the ride and then having second thoughts. But you WILL survive.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Just recovering from a thumping I got from Mach over on Trustinginfaith`s thread!(****My head hurts!****) (But really, thanks, Mach!)
My therapist very quickly identified that I get WAAAAAAAYYYY too angry! So has Mach. Somehow, I slid back into that with H`s backslide of last week. yeah, detached we are not! Once he has me in the fear place(and this time, I afraid of an OW on the scene,S convo coming up, monay disappearing) I fight back. Miaow!
And that makes me the demon he hates! So here`s to exorcising me today!
I`m with you on unMummyfying myself! So is H! All the changes he asked for in the past I am doing now. No, not because he wants them but because they`re very much part of the DB process of minding me. So I`ve burnt my old bras(lol!) and in with a ton of new undies, brazilian waxes, fake tan, cosmetics, perfume and new clothes. So, yeah, its MLC territory for me too!Yeah, and the MLC diet helps too!
I think me doin geverything for the kids is a bad idea. H needs to make some connection with them though I`m not going to direct is relationship with them either. Just make sure I don`t do all of it all of the time for my sake.
One of the biggest things I`ve learnt is that its not just OK to mind me but that I should feel guilty if I don`t mind me.
Thanks, Cat for sharing. You do such great work on these boards and I really appreciate having your advice!
I'm gonna move this over here if that is okay with ya..
Originally Posted By: Fallgirl
Thanks for taking me to task. Sorry for the hijack TIF but cant find Mach`s thread.
Not gonna....I don't have one....
Just post on your thread and shout when you need me to answer something....I'll see it...
Originally Posted By: Fallgirl
Fear and anger both part of the same coin, eh? I feel as if H has the sword of Damocles over me these days and waiting for it to fall puts me in the fearful angry place. The place that got us where we are in the first place.
That's a pretty heavy sword to carry around.....
THAT....Is exactly what I talk about when I say Negative expectations are just as deadly as the Positive expectations....
Silk undies? Where did you find them? Didn't he KNOW you'd wonder why he has them? Sounds like he wanted them to be found... Is he trying to piss you off on purpose?
I like that you're carefully thinking and planning prior to action, rather than reacting. I'm not sure I have that in me. I'm proud of you.
I assume your kids are out of school for summer. I forget, do you work outside the home?
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Yesterday felt so much better. Getting on board here, getting all those insights into the demon in ME helped calm me. So I GALd lots, and when H came home I was bright and cheerful told him I was off for a walk and had dinner left over if he wanted to eat it.
I don`t recall H saying anything more than "Yeah" yesterday. But at least he ate dinner and emptied the dishwasher. I`d decided I wasn`t going to be leaving a room just cos he was there so, when I returned from the walk (also met up with a GF so I was gone for two hours), the whole family ended up watching the end of a Fawlty Towers episode together. First time we were together watching something in I don`t know how long.
I know he hates my guts and wish I would leave his life forever And of course, my insights yesterday won`t filter through to him for yonks, if ever, but I`m looking now at why I get so scared/angry so easily. Family of origin stuff. That I have to heal if I`m to stand tall and strong but loving in any space with H. Meanwhile, I just won`t stand in his space too much-he`ll recover better without me. But when I am there I`m not going into an angry or fearful place.
Mach, was it you who posted before re turning one`s anger into a shield to protect rather than a sword to strike?Anyway, I am so very grateful for your time here. Yes, I`m struggling with Negative expectations and negative thinking. It`s a whole familial, cultural(Irish Catholic)thing I`ve got going here.
This morning, during prayer, I got a whole sense of my failings( and at this point I`m thinking its mostly my failings and I`m too bloody late in seeing that!) and H`s failings melding together to create this divorce genie that`s wrecking havoc in the lives of the family. I know it`ll be one heck of a job to get it back into its bottle.
Mindblank,maybe you`re right about H hoping I`d find his stuff.Maybe he`s in a dream world of drawing women to him. He needs to be because he needs to believe that women will love, adore, praise him since he got so little of that from me. Specifically the praise. So I praise him in my head now, and pray for him and am waiting for the day when we`ll open up enough to each other so that I can give him sincere praise.
Stormrider, its a tough station but the learning is good!
