WAS begin leaving the M eons before LBS are told....WAS have worked through many many emotions before doing whatever it is they needed to do to get out...A little empathy here might make WAS a little more human. Their actions and talk are similar because they all feel the same. Trapped, guilty, sad, alone, scared and angry.
I don't think, in a moment of honesty, that anyone is going to disagree with this evaluation, @polly. In fact, we (all of us, not just you and me) had this discussion on one of my earlier threads. Clearly the Walkaway has been brought "to that point" over time -- except, perhaps, in cases of sudden Others or temporary insanity.
What I find so hugely bothersome -- and I think it gets to what @Citygirl was writing about -- is this:
Having reached that point and having made her decision and having announced it to literally every single person we knew as a couple and to many, many people I barely knew, and having declared her contentment, happiness, satisfaction with -- and commitment to -- that decision, why is it necessary for her to continue to manufacture stories about me that do nothing but put me in a bad light?
Why, for example, did she have to tell her sister that I said X when in fact I said, plainly and clearly, "not-X"?
How does she not see that if, by some fortunate chain of events, we were to start piecing it back together, the fact that so many people in her life -- and remember, this is a woman who never lets people out of her orbit -- believe really negative things about me, that this would be a real complication?
How, for example, would I ever be able to have a cordial relationship with her sister -- her sister, for the gods' sakes! -- who now believes really horrible things about me. And why wouldn't she believe them? What reason would WAW have to lie to her own sister -- who would presumably support her no matter what?
That's what Citygirl and I and some others were talking about -- the post-Bomb WASspeak.
Hmmmm as once a WAS I felt the need to respond to your post.
I believe that WAS believe it all right. They just want you to go away and understand.
WAS don't get up one morning and think to themselves ' well this was fun, but now what ?'
WAS begin leaving the M eons before LBS are told. WAS leave the M because there is something not being fulfilled in the M.
LBS are hurt and devastated and desperate because the WAS have left them in shock. Any LBS on this board, see the D day coming ! Not many I bet.
WAS have worked through many many emotions before doing whatever it is they needed to do to get out. Affairs, ILYBIANILWU ,lies , abuse - you all know the drill.
A little empathy here might make WAS a little more human. Their actions and talk are similar because they all feel the same. Trapped, guilty, sad, alone, scared and angry.
SP - you said: "How does she not see that if, by some fortunate chain of events, we were to start piecing it back together, the fact that so many people in her life -- and remember, this is a woman who never lets people out of her orbit -- believe really negative things about me, that this would be a real complication?
How, for example, would I ever be able to have a cordial relationship with her sister -- her sister, for the gods' sakes! -- who now believes really horrible things about me. And why wouldn't she believe them? What reason would WAW have to lie to her own sister -- who would presumably support her no matter what?"
This is very simple. She has NO intention of EVER being with you again. Take that for what its worth, but that is the REASON. Why search any further for any reason? It is perfectly logical.
And secondly, you keep bringing up that she said X to her sister when you clearly said Y...but in fact, you did not talk directly TO her sister and you don't know what was said. Furthermore, you keep p*ssyfooting around about alimony, when you know very clearly that your WAW WANTS YOU TO STATE AN AMOUNT, and by not stating an amount, you are forcing her to assume the worst.
I have said the above a couple of times already on your thread but you seem determined to demonize what she is saying and doing, versus seeing it how it looks from the outside.
I think that smearing the LBS (in addition to justifying the WASs behavior and garnering support) sort of seals the deal and deliberately burns all bridges back. I doubt it is conscious but I think it is a way of putting the nail in the coffin to protect them from turning back (which in their minds would be a negative- regressing back to old R).
This is very simple. She has NO intention of EVER being with you again. Take that for what its worth, but that is the REASON. Why search any further for any reason? It is perfectly logical.
This is I know.
This I disagree with. It's not perfectly logical. "I no longer want to be married to SP. He was not there when I needed him. I do not believe I can count on him." That's one thing. For (true) friends and for family, it ought to be sufficient.
Quote:
And secondly, you keep bringing up that she said X to her sister when you clearly said Y...but in fact, you did not talk directly TO her sister and you don't know what was said.
While it is true that I did not speak to her sister, I now have had a SECOND mutual friend of SIL and myself more or less confront me with the same story. That seems pretty solid evidence to me.
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Furthermore, you keep p*ssyfooting around about alimony, when you know very clearly that your WAW WANTS YOU TO STATE AN AMOUNT, and by not stating an amount, you are forcing her to assume the worst.
I am not pussyfooting around -- I DO NOT KNOW WHAT AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT SHORT OF THE STATE-DEFINED LEVEL IS. And she doesn't want to pay that. And I told her that I would, in fact, consider taking less than the state-defined level (which is a lot), in the interest of pushing this thing through and not bankrupting her and demonstrating my good faith to being cooperative and because the number seems very high to me and and and.
Which, since you follow the thread so closely, you already know, because I have said so here, and which you already know I have told WAW ad infinitum.
My position on alimony has been consistent -- until I have a thorough read on MY financial position (in jeopardy due to job cuts) and on HOW MUCH maintenance of the house requires -- data she still hasn't completely provided me -- I am in no position to say anything more substantial than "a million dollars a month" or "a dollar a year."
Quote:
you seem determined to demonize what she is saying and doing, versus seeing it how it looks from the outside
You are still talking about it from YOUR perspective. I am saying from HER perspective, you are p*ssyfooting, and from HER perspective, your p*ssyfooting is something she feels justified in whining to her sister about. From HER perspective it is all logical. And from an outside perspective, regardless of how many times and ways you say you are not ready to make that dollar amount request, you are being passive agressive about it. You know she wants you to hurry it up, and you are still not hurrying up. I'm not saying you don't have valid reasons, but still from the outside, it is a passive agressive manuver on your part.
Hmmmm as once a WAS I felt the need to respond to your post.
I believe that WAS believe it all right. They just want you to go away and understand.
WAS don't get up one morning and think to themselves ' well this was fun, but now what ?'
WAS begin leaving the M eons before LBS are told. WAS leave the M because there is something not being fulfilled in the M.
LBS are hurt and devastated and desperate because the WAS have left them in shock. Any LBS on this board, see the D day coming ! Not many I bet.
WAS have worked through many many emotions before doing whatever it is they needed to do to get out. Affairs, ILYBIANILWU ,lies , abuse - you all know the drill.
A little empathy here might make WAS a little more human. Their actions and talk are similar because they all feel the same. Trapped, guilty, sad, alone, scared and angry.
That's a good post, Pollyanna. So very true.
Puppy
I rarely disagree with @Puppy, and I agreed with everything else you wrote, but @Polly, the highlighted language above just jumped off the screen at me...
Are you suggesting lies, affairs, abuse are ever needed to get out of a marriage that is not fulfilling?
I certainly agree that empathy is in order as is an understanding of the LBS's own role in the demise of the R, but, clearly, lies, deceit, infidelity and abuse make it harder on even the most empathic of LBS's to show such compassion.
Just as clearly, the WAS had other choices than lies, deceit, infidelity or abuse (e.g., ending the M without any of those assuming their reasonable efforts at getting their spouse to understand their unhappiness went unheard and their needs remained unmet). Hard to conclude that these were ever needed...
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
You are still talking about it from YOUR perspective. I am saying from HER perspective, you are p*ssyfooting, and from HER perspective, your p*ssyfooting is something she feels justified in whining to her sister about. From HER perspective it is all logical. And from an outside perspective, regardless of how many times and ways you say you are not ready to make that dollar amount request, you are being passive agressive about it. You know she wants you to hurry it up, and you are still not hurrying up. I'm not saying you don't have valid reasons, but still from the outside, it is a passive agressive manuver on your part.
DQ
As is her refusal to give her number first...
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
