WAW Using God

[pigskin]

She also wondered why I haven't asked for status on her and the OM.

I told her she can't have it both ways.

But your actions show her something different.

small shows of affection that I initiate

What does detaching mean to you? How do you show her you are detached?

Thanks for the reply, coach. She seemed annoyed that I would assume she is still active with OM communication. Hence her asking why I'd be indifferent to her because of that belief, without asking her if what I believed was true.

Detachment to me is going about my business, not letting anything to do with her (mood, responses, actions) affect me or how I "pursue happiness". Its about not pursuing her, allowing her to initiate conversation.

[pigskin]

Pigskin,

I'm a little confused. On the one hand, you say:

I detached, she drew in wondering what was wrong.

and then you say:

So now I'm going to go back to what seemed to be working (being attentive, listening, small shows of affection that I initiate).

Those two examples are in direct contradiction with each other.

How are you defining "working"? I would contend that her "drawing in" was working, and I think you're defining it as what seems to please her, and reduces tension.

"Working" isn't necessarily the reducing of tension. In fact, in the SHORT term, it's often the opposite.

Food for thought.

Puppy

Thanks pup. I think this is where the nuance or "art" comes in. My detachment seems to confirm her biggest fear - that my positive changes are fleeting. She seems to see the detachment as emotional distance, which seems to increase tension and how she feels about me.

It's a bit of a catch 22 in my mind - trying to show an emotional connection without pursuing, while also laying back and risking it looking like there is no change at all.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Pigskin,

I'm a little confused. On the one hand, you say:

I detached, she drew in wondering what was wrong.

and then you say:

So now I'm going to go back to what seemed to be working (being attentive, listening, small shows of affection that I initiate).

Those two examples are in direct contradiction with each other.

How are you defining "working"? I would contend that her "drawing in" was working, and I think you're defining it as what seems to please her, and reduces tension.

"Working" isn't necessarily the reducing of tension. In fact, in the SHORT term, it's often the opposite.

Food for thought.

Puppy

Thanks pup. I think this is where the nuance or "art" comes in. My detachment seems to confirm her biggest fear - that my positive changes are fleeting. She seems to see the detachment as emotional distance, which seems to increase tension and how she feels about me.

See, and I think emotional distance is GOOD at this stage. I don't think it's effective to go from detachment to pursuit, back to detachment, back to pursuit, etc.

Her question is an interesting one: "If you really think my contact with OM is over, then why aren't you acting nicer toward me?" It's like she's calling your bluff.

DO you think it's over???

Puppy

[pigskin]

See, and I think emotional distance is GOOD at this stage. I don't think it's effective to go from detachment to pursuit, back to detachment, back to pursuit, etc.

Her question is an interesting one: "If you really think my contact with OM is over, then why aren't you acting nicer toward me?" It's like she's calling your bluff.

DO you think it's over???

Puppy

Actually her question was more "Why do you assume my contact is NOT over and are therefore remaining emotionally distant because you think its not over." Like she silently ended the contact (without telling me its over) because of her seeing positive changes, and now suddenly she see's me being distant again, making her think I'm not serious, and that she is being suckered back.

Do I think its over? I got the impression she is making positive steps in that direction, but I'm also wary and not being naive. I think she knows now that if I see any evidence of inappropriate contact, I'm going to be distant. If I get evidence its over, she'll see the positive changes again. The ball is in her court.

I was clear to her what to expect out of me. She knows I want confirmation from her that it has ended.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

OK, gotcha. I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a stance of "I wish I could believe that, but based on what's happened here recently, I find the need to protect myself emotionally" -- or something similar.

[sandi2]

She wants me to take it slow, no smothering.

Yep. Think I made the same statement once.

Actually her question was more "Why do you assume my contact is NOT over and are therefore remaining emotionally distant because you think its not over." Like she silently ended the contact (without telling me its over) because of her seeing positive changes, and now suddenly she see's me being distant again, making her think I'm not serious, and that she is being suckered back.

Not that you "asked" me what I think.....but I THINK you are interpreting what YOU want to hear in her statements. I hope you are right and my feelings about this is so off the chart wrong!

[MrBond]

I agree with PDT and Sandi,

"She wants me to take it slow, no smothering. So that's what I'm going to do. We'll see where it goes from there."

What do you mean SHE wants YOU to take it slow. You should decide to take it however quickly you want to take it. You've given her way too much power in your sitch. Once she has your nuts in her pocket, she's going to prance you around like a puppet on a string.

If you think you have to be the one to act responsible, then be the driver and not the passenger.

[pigskin]

Not that you "asked" me what I think.....but I THINK you are interpreting what YOU want to hear in her statements. I hope you are right and my feelings about this is so off the chart wrong!

Thanks Sandi. And feel free to comment any way you feel. I promise I won't take offense. You have an extremely valuable perspective as a former WAW, one I highly value, so I would LOVE to know what you think. You can take the kid gloves off with me; I actually prefer that.

We are continuing to talk, and it has become apparent that extreme guilt seems to be kicking in on her side; she has said that. The frustrating thing is she feels extreme guilt on both sides of the equation - if she elects to stay, she is going to feel horrible about what she did to the OM, and if she leaves, she knows there will be extreme guilt towards what she did to me as well. This is causing her paralysis.

My position is that it is her decision and hers alone, and she has to face it. There is no free lunch here. I have no sympathy towards the OM and any hurt feelings he may eventually have. He deserves them.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

How long has she known this guy again?

[pigskin]

I agree with PDT and Sandi,

"She wants me to take it slow, no smothering. So that's what I'm going to do. We'll see where it goes from there."

What do you mean SHE wants YOU to take it slow. You should decide to take it however quickly you want to take it. You've given her way too much power in your sitch. Once she has your nuts in her pocket, she's going to prance you around like a puppet on a string.

Thanks stuck. I'm not pursuing (at least I don't THINK I am), but also not being so distant that it seems I'm back to same old me, which places doubt in her mind over my commitment to change.

I told her in so many words about her playing it like she "has my nuts in her pocket" and that I wasn't going to stand for that. She seemed to take offense at me thinking she would do something like that to me. "You know I'm not like that, I would NEVER do that, do you really think I would just ride along like that getting my jollies from both of you? I hate being in this position".

If you think you have to be the one to act responsible, then be the driver and not the passenger.

That's what I'm trying to do, with the understanding that I can't make two adults do what I want them to do if they are not willing to. I'm not going to chase her; I'm going to keep consistent with my changes and continue to show displeasure with the EA. The nuance I have to negotiate could be a friggin' case study - can't be too close without causing decision delays, yet can't be too distant and provide fuel for her thinking I haven't changed and thus more indecision. A very frustrating spot to be in.