Speaking of that, Dr. James Dobson wrote a book, "Tough Love" about marriage/affairs and how to handle that. It is from a Christian view point and you may be surprised at the stand he makes. Good book!
I think you are a man with a huge gentle heart, but I know how we women in an EA will take advantage of a man like that. I am M to a man like that and I disrespected him terribly. I abused the trust he had in me and wiped my feet on him. Don't confuse what being a Christian is with a doormat. The two look nothing alike. It is kind of like you being a parent to those kids of yours.....you can't be their "buddy" when they have disobeyed you, b/c that is when you have to step into that figure of parental authority and carry out some form of discipline. Can you imagine what type of people they would grow up to be if you never wore that hat of authority? That is a form of tough love and the Bible certainly teaches parents to do that! No, it isn't a pleasant job, but we want our children to be good people so we raise them the best we know how by using the tools/information we're given.
You are getting your tools here in how to help your W. The more you turn your head at what's really going on, the less it helps. In a way, you almost have to take on the form of a parent with her while she's in this frame of mind. You have to be the strong one b/c she certainly won't be. Now, don't insult her intellegence.....that's not what I mean, but you will have to almost act like her parent at times when it comes to her showing you respect. My H tried to treat me like I was his child and I almost despised him for it. But he was very angry and did things that I felt insulted my intellengence (like hide the computer cam)and so I would retaliate to prove I could not be outdone. That's one of those fine lines you were talking about. It's important that you not opperate out of anger b/c it doesn't work that way. However, you don't have to act smug about it either. At times, my H would act like that and I hated it. It was not him and I could not stand for him to behave like that. Of course, I wasn't acting like me, either. You don't have to pretend to be happy about what she's doing! Opperate out of a calm spirit but let her know you mean business when you tell her that you do not know how long you can live with a woman who is disrespectful to her H and gives her heart to another man, contacts him, stays out late, etc. Don't let her tell you it has nothing to do with you and that it's about "her"....b/c it has EVERYTHING to do about you and her M.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Opperate out of a calm spirit but let her know you mean business when you tell her that you do not know how long you can live with a woman who is disrespectful to her H and gives her heart to another man, contacts him, stays out late, etc. Don't let her tell you it has nothing to do with you and that it's about "her"....b/c it has EVERYTHING to do about you and her M.
Excellent advice Sandi - advice I can use in my own sitch.
Me: 39 H: 39 S: 15 M: 18 years Bomb: 6/3/09 H moved out: 10/15/09 H moved back:5/30/10
My personal suspicion is that it's not the truth-telling that gets the LBS in trouble (long term, anyhow) so much as it is any whiff of self-righteousness or injured innocent martyrdom accompanying it. Nobody in an adult LTR is an innocent; we've all done terrible hurtful things to each other, knowingly or not. Ya gotta check the smug mode at the door and not approach your spouse like a patient, benevolent patriarch stooping to conquer. And that, too, is Christian ...
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men-robbers, evildoers, adulterers-or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luke 18:10-14)
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I think you are a man with a huge gentle heart, but I know how we women in an EA will take advantage of a man like that. I am M to a man like that and I disrespected him terribly. I abused the trust he had in me and wiped my feet on him. Don't confuse what being a Christian is with a doormat. The two look nothing alike. It is kind of like you being a parent to those kids of yours.....you can't be their "buddy" when they have disobeyed you, b/c that is when you have to step into that figure of parental authority and carry out some form of discipline. Can you imagine what type of people they would grow up to be if you never wore that hat of authority? That is a form of tough love and the Bible certainly teaches parents to do that! No, it isn't a pleasant job, but we want our children to be good people so we raise them the best we know how by using the tools/information we're given.
You are getting your tools here in how to help your W. The more you turn your head at what's really going on, the less it helps. In a way, you almost have to take on the form of a parent with her while she's in this frame of mind. You have to be the strong one b/c she certainly won't be. Now, don't insult her intellegence.....that's not what I mean, but you will have to almost act like her parent at times when it comes to her showing you respect. My H tried to treat me like I was his child and I almost despised him for it. But he was very angry and did things that I felt insulted my intellengence (like hide the computer cam)and so I would retaliate to prove I could not be outdone. That's one of those fine lines you were talking about. It's important that you not opperate out of anger b/c it doesn't work that way. However, you don't have to act smug about it either. At times, my H would act like that and I hated it. It was not him and I could not stand for him to behave like that. Of course, I wasn't acting like me, either. You don't have to pretend to be happy about what she's doing! Opperate out of a calm spirit but let her know you mean business when you tell her that you do not know how long you can live with a woman who is disrespectful to her H and gives her heart to another man, contacts him, stays out late, etc. Don't let her tell you it has nothing to do with you and that it's about "her"....b/c it has EVERYTHING to do about you and her M.
Thanks for the input Sandi. I've pretty much laid down the law, and the last time we talked I was direct in calling the affair an affair and a despicable act. The analogy with child rearing is a good one. I always like to say to my kids, "I'm not your FRIEND. I'm your FATHER".
I think I'm doing pretty well with not getting angry. I'm passionate in debate, but I don't get angry. My wife is not in my face about contact with OM, and I've told her I won't tolerate it in front of me or in the house. She doesn't go out except occasionally (less than once a month) with mutual female married friends, which she was doing long before the EA. I've never met the OM's wife, but I know she's kept a leash on him, probably to the point of suffocation, so she's an unknowing advocate in my corner, I guess. However I have no idea what goes on between 5 PM and when she gets home around 6PM.
It's a very weird situation in that it seems like a weekday 9 to 5 EA. Maybe she came clean about it soon enough to put out the fire. Maybe I'm taking the good advice you and others have given me, and putting it to use quick enough to stop the bleeding. Or maybe we've just seen the tip of the iceberg. Impossible to know, but that's where I feel anxious sometimes. All I can do is keep pushing on.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
My personal suspicion is that it's not the truth-telling that gets the LBS in trouble (long term, anyhow) so much as it is any whiff of self-righteousness or injured innocent martyrdom accompanying it. Nobody in an adult LTR is an innocent; we've all done terrible hurtful things to each other, knowingly or not. Ya gotta check the smug mode at the door and not approach your spouse like a patient, benevolent patriarch stooping to conquer. And that, too, is Christian ...
"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men-robbers, evildoers, adulterers-or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luke 18:10-14)
Kett,
That's really good. I struggle with finding this balance myself, and probably did err on this side that you describe here. It's a fine line to walk, between "doormat" and "keeping yourself humble"; between "tough love" and "self-righteous patriarch."
My personal suspicion is that it's not the truth-telling that gets the LBS in trouble (long term, anyhow) so much as it is any whiff of self-righteousness or injured innocent martyrdom accompanying it. Nobody in an adult LTR is an innocent; we've all done terrible hurtful things to each other, knowingly or not. Ya gotta check the smug mode at the door and not approach your spouse like a patient, benevolent patriarch stooping to conquer. And that, too, is Christian ...
Thank you so much for wording that like you did! I think that is why I kind of get upset with some of the LBH's at times when "some" of them sound almost angelic! LOL....we know that is never the case and we are only hearing their side of the story. Both sides have done 'something' that wasn't good at some point of the R. I never justify an A, but sometimes LBS must be reminded that that WAS may have endured a lot of stuff over the years before breaking down and turning to another person......or leaving the home. My H acted like you just described and even said he had done nothing wrong! Wow, do you know how that made me feel? Attitude is everything.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Updating. Replied to Orich's thread with it so just pasting it here:
My wife and I are in the same boat, interaction wise, as you orich. No fighting, in the same bed. An outside observer would notice nothing wrong.
I detached, she drew in wondering what was wrong. I told her why I detached. She seemed bothered that I would do that without telling her why. She also wondered why I haven't asked for status on her and the OM. She got the impression I was being distant, going back to the "same old me", throwing doubts in her mind that my positive changes were lasting. That is her biggest fear of "coming back".
So now I'm going to go back to what seemed to be working (being attentive, listening, small shows of affection that I initiate). She gave me the impression she's cooled it with the OM, but there's risk in me thinking that. I told her she can't have it both ways. So while I don't expect her to return affection just yet, she did respond positively to it, so I'm going to play it by ear at this point. I think she knows my behavior will be dictated by me seeing her behavior changing.
She wants me to take it slow, no smothering. So that's what I'm going to do. We'll see where it goes from there.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
She also wondered why I haven't asked for status on her and the OM.
Quote:
I told her she can't have it both ways.
But your actions show her something different.
Quote:
small shows of affection that I initiate
What does detaching mean to you? How do you show her you are detached?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
So now I'm going to go back to what seemed to be working (being attentive, listening, small shows of affection that I initiate).
Those two examples are in direct contradiction with each other.
How are you defining "working"? I would contend that her "drawing in" was working, and I think you're defining it as what seems to please her, and reduces tension.
"Working" isn't necessarily the reducing of tension. In fact, in the SHORT term, it's often the opposite.
