Well, to put my 2 cents worth in ... I've been on the receiving end of that. Not for a good while. But is *sucks*. It sucks to sit on the couch by yourself night after night .... it sucks almost more, I think, to sit on the couch next to a man who has fried his brain so hard that he might as well be on Mars for all the sense of meaningful presence or engagement you get out of him. (No, no other engineer-type's wife out there would know *anything* about that, no sir ....)
I can even almost understand the WAWs who have emotionally detached so completely *from motives of self-protection* in those circumstances that they feel they could never let down their guard again. Understand, but not endorse. If she's got a man who is willing to TRY to reprioritize and reengage, I think she owes it to everyone involved to really give it the old college try herself.
Thanks Kettricken, It helps to hear the other side, it really does. I can see that my W is in SO much pain. She is lashing out, and acting out, and directing it at me and blaming me, but I can now clearly see that her current pain is not about me. It's not about anything I am doing now. I have prioritized. I have reengaged.
So I'm not taking it personally now.
I just see the pain and really feel sorry for her.
I also wonder how much of the pain she is in is coming from the history of our sitch, and how much is FOO oriented - things I know nothing about, and can do nothing about.
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Note: If this was a wife who was simultaneously whining about her husband's earning power/pressuring him to advance in his career .... then her feelings of abandonment have no validity. She made her choice. I mean, her feelings have validity in that they are now facts to be grappled with, but the husband should confidently bypass the guilt portion of the program. IMHO.
I'd like to throw a note of caution here. For years, all I heard from my W in the way of complaints was "We need a vacation", "We need a bigger house", "We need a new car", "I need..." All I kept hearing was "More $", "More $", "More $" I realize now that she really wasn't asking for these things. She was asking for Quality time and support. I think this may be a pretty common problem.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Kett's post is pretty balanced. My H is a workaholic. I used to tell my friend that I would put on his tombstone, "he loved his work, and nothing else." And now is he a changed man? No, not really. But I learned to accept it. Do you wonder why I am on the internet so much talking to strangers? Because he likes to be by himself. And I have figured out that that isn't a crime, and it doesn't really hurt me. So I amuse myself separately. He doesn't resent the time I spend talking to you, and I don't care if he vegges out in front of the tv every night.
But we do make a point of going out to dinner every saturday night. And we are together at that time. And both weekend days are flexible if either of us has an idea of something to do together. The key to accepting it, for me, was to realize that I wasn't being abandoned or slighted. I just had to amuse myself, and not get mad about something that really wasn't about me.
Thinker, do you set aside some time to be alone and friendly with your wife? Do you do things that you both enjoy together sometimes? Can you increase the frequency of those times?
Mrs. Thinker and I have had a couple of nights in a row of pretty intense discussions. No major changes or breakthroughs. I made my position clear - permanent limbo is unacceptable, and D is no longer frightening. She continues to try to avoid everything.
She is clear that she does not want a D right now, but continues to wish for a separation - ie for her to be able to stay here with her life unchanged and me to just disappear for an undetermined period of time. She lamented that this is not financially feasible. Also, neither of us is willing to move out, so a separation would logistically be the same as a D.
She say's she has now ended the sexual texts with both OM2 and OM3 - told both it can't and won't continue. For my own sanity I am neither trusting nor checking right now.
I'm too tired to really analyze or discuss right now.
We did have a great day hiking with the boys today - good healthy family fun for all. I haven't seen them that happy in a long time.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Thinker, do you set aside some time to be alone and friendly with your wife? Do you do things that you both enjoy together sometimes? Can you increase the frequency of those times?
Short answer is yes.
We try to eat dinner together most nights - sometimes as a family (which is stressful with the boys), but many nights together after we get the kids in bed.
We also have a standing babysitter on Thursday nights. That gets canceled sometimes due to conflicts, but we do go out probably every other Thursday.
Most times when we go out, my W elects to do something that requires minimal interaction - going to a movie, etc. If we go to dinner, or a bar, etc. my W starts looking very uncomfortable, stops looking at me, stops talking (one word responses), and things get generally uncomfortable.
I have also been trying (unsuccessfully so far) to get us back out doing athletic outdoor stuff together again. Right now we either do that individually, or with 3 needy kids in tow, so there is never any togetherness.
Whether it is true or not (mindreading...) I feel like my W is full of negative emotions, and whenever we are together, she projects them all onto me. Yesterday we were together, the sun was shining, the boys were playing, we were having a nice meal and a nice glass of wine and I was really happy. I looked at her, really focused on her, and smiled. She looked taken aback and asked "Why are you smiling at me?", to which I replied "Because the sun is shining, it's a beautiful day, the boys are playing, and I'm happy". She broke down crying and asked "Then why does that just make me feel so miserable?"
As Alex said in his post, this is not due to current issues. The old issues were there, but I made those changes. I don't work or travel as much, my priorities are with the family, I am a lot more involved in family life...and I made a lot of these changes pre-bomb.
So if it is due to me, it is left over from the years when I was a workaholic.
Last edited by Thinker; 07/19/0904:34 AM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I'd like to throw a note of caution here. For years, all I heard from my W in the way of complaints was "We need a vacation", "We need a bigger house", "We need a new car", "I need..." All I kept hearing was "More $", "More $", "More $" I realize now that she really wasn't asking for these things. She was asking for Quality time and support. I think this may be a pretty common problem.
I'm sure you're right. However I must point out in your defense, if she didn't even know what she *really* wanted enough to ask for it in simple, clear terms ... I don't see how you could have been expected to mind read. I mean, you kinda DO need $$$ to get a new car, etc ..... All you can do is go forward from here, which you are trying to do.
Glad to hear she is at least verbally agreeing to stop to contact with OM(s!).
Re: Doing Things. Even when things aren't great -- maybe *especially* when things arent' great -- I'm a big proponent of doing things where there is something to actually be *doing*. Movies are meh, 'cause there's really no communication there. Nice dinners may be too far in the other direction ... lots of space that begs to be filled with words; maybe too much pressure. Go for a walk or a hike, go bowling or shoot some pool, heck, find a park and throw a frisbee around or go on the swings. Anything that involves activity, especially with a side order of laughter or lightheartedness is a huge step in the right direction. IMHO.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I looked at her, really focused on her, and smiled. She looked taken aback and asked "Why are you smiling at me?", to which I replied "Because the sun is shining, it's a beautiful day, the boys are playing, and I'm happy". She broke down crying and asked "Then why does that just make me feel so miserable?"
It seems like everytime you talk about a conversation with your wife, she cries about something. I'm beginning to wonder if she isn't chronically depressed. I would expect greater emotional strength from a woman toying with affairs. If she can't handle normal day to day life, how does she expect to cope with potential love and loss in the dating scene? It is a meat-market out there. Has she seen a doctor about depression?
