Divorce not busted

[pigskin]

... Now W has agreed to Retrouvaille with me... So, what do I take away from this, if anything? She is still seeing the IC who is helping her move on, yet she has agreed to the Retro weekend. Am I just being paranoid?
What's going on inside her head? Should I ask?

My wife was going to an IC shortly after her EA started, and a few sessions in, asked if I would go too, and I agreed.

I didn't care for the IC as he too seemed to be focused on helping her decide to move on in the easiest way possible. His tune changed after a couple of joint sessions with us when he heard the changes I was making and my committment to marriage, and he seemed to bring the reconciliation potential back into the picture.

We went to Retro after about 3 of those joint sessions, and my wife canceled the rest. She didn't feel they would offer us anything we weren't already working on.

I also tried to think about what was going on in my wife's head, but if your wife accepts Retro, roll with it. I don't know if my wife was doing it to ensure a cordial split and friendship for the kids' sake, but I made it clear to her that I didn't think we could be friends if she left me, and that I would resent it if she had an ulterior motive for going through what is a big time and emotional commitment. That hurt her, but I think it also made her motivated to give Retro a chance to work.

[Orich]

Thanks for the feedback. Can I ask what your impression of the weekend was? I am putting a lot of hope into this weekend. I know it isn't a magic cure, but hopefully it will put a seed in my wife's head that the r is worth saving.

[pigskin]

Thanks for the feedback. Can I ask what your impression of the weekend was? I am putting a lot of hope into this weekend. I know it isn't a magic cure, but hopefully it will put a seed in my wife's head that the r is worth saving.

It is very powerful and emotional. It's all focused on one-on-one interactions between the spouses to foster communication and bring you closer through sharing your feelings with each other--no group sharing other than the presenting couples. It is not for solving your problems; the two of you are responsible for that. It provides the techniques by which you can work on what is hurting your marriage.

You will hear the stories of couples who went through various levels of marital hell (some quite disturbing) and pulled out of it, which is encouraging. It differs from counseling in that counseling can sometimes seem to be focused on how you can still be fine after divorce, which is true for many, but you want to see people who came back from the brink and use them as a model if you are interested in saving your marriage. I think sometimes people look for reassurance from those who experienced divorce and are getting along fine, but that is not your model if you are actively working on saving what you have.

The overall message is that love is a decision, not a feeling. And that perseverance in the face of utter hopelessness CAN pay off. Never give up.

The most moving thing to me was the genuine concern of total strangers to help other total strangers. The people involved in the program are saints. They truly are. They come from all faiths (or lack thereof) and walks of life. They don't care who you are or whether you believe in God or not. They want one thing - to help save your marriage.

There is no preaching about how you can't/shouldn't get divorced. There's no guilt laid on you. It's all about moving forward and working on saving your marriage, since (ideally) that is what you are there for, and you are there by your own decision.

I'd recommend it to every married couple, happily married or not. They say that 80% of those who go through the ENTIRE program (including all post sessions) are married 5 years later. But that drops to 50% for those who skipped doing the post sessions. And some attendees are already separated or divorced.

I'll happily answer other questions about it if you have them, although the program does have a kind of non-disclosure request from those who have attended. They don't want people to have any prep or preconceived notion of the details that go on there.

[Orich]

Thanks.
I'm not looking for specifics, just your impression. I am excited and nervous about the weekend. I really hope it helps us. I want very much to save our M. I still love my W very much, and want to be with her until the end of our lives, i want our family to stay together. Perseverance is all I have at this point. She was ready to walk away from the M until about a week ago, so as I posted earlier, this is my last best hope.

[pigskin]

Thanks.
I'm not looking for specifics, just your impression. I am excited and nervous about the weekend. I really hope it helps us. I want very much to save our M. I still love my W very much, and want to be with her until the end of our lives, i want our family to stay together. Perseverance is all I have at this point. She was ready to walk away from the M until about a week ago, so as I posted earlier, this is my last best hope.

It's natural to be both excited and nervous. Like I said, just roll with it. You'll both be more comfortable after the first night there. They really are a great group of people and they care about you.

It may not change your wife's mind, but it will open both of you up, which can lead to a change of heart. Patience is key. I'm practicing that right now.

[Orich]

Patience is hard, I have been doing that for months now. I think I have been doing it for so long now that it is becoming easier! (not) Where my M is concerned, I can wait for as long as it takes. True, I have times where I am frustrated as hell, emotionally and sexually. But keeping my mind on the hopeful outcome keeps me going. Thanks to this board, I think I have gotten to the point where I know I will be OK no matter what happens. I still want my marriage back. I still want my wife back. But if it doesn't happen, I have become a different, better person for it.

[K4D]

Orich,

I feel your pain with emotion and sex. I am with you on that. But don't look at this as your last opportunity to make things right. It could be that you are in the opening run for a while. As tough as that is to hear, I'm right there with you. I don't know how long you have been at this. I know for me it has been 11 months and counting. Some people it takes years.

Keep praying and being faithful. Pray for your W. Pray for yourself. Forgive your W daily and be patient. God hears you and just because you don't see anything happening right now does not mean the wheels have not been put into motion. Sometimes God says "not yet". Things have to be right first. This is an opportunity for you to test your faith in God. Remember the book of Hosea. It took years before God restored that M. I would encourage you if you haven't already to go to www.rejoiceministries.org

There are many standers for their M and all have different lengths of time they have had to wait. But they all have faith that God will restore them. We all go through those frusturations. I am as well today. Good days and bad days. I think about the same things as you. When am I going to get to have sex with my W again. When will she have some emotion towards me. I don't have the answer to that other than in time. Remember, its not our timing, but God's timing and it will be the perfect timing when it happens. Keep your faith and trust in God. Keep your eyes on Jesus.

Think about what woudl Jesus have you do. Would he say walk away and find someone else? No. He wouldn't. Look at your W as God's daughter. How would you treat her if God was standing right there and that is his daughter. Would you remain strong and do what he asks? Would you be patient if he was standing right there?

I'm pretty sure you would. Try and visualize it from that perspective.

Just trying to be helpful. Feel free to send me an email and we can chat.

Kevin

[pigskin]

Kind of in line with what K4D said. Here's a nice story in case you haven't seen it before:

The Story of the Tea Cup


There was a couple who went to England to shop in a beautiful antique store. They both liked antiques and pottery, and especially tea cups. On a trip to celebrate their 25th wedding anniversary, they found an exceptional cup. They asked "May we see that cup? We've never seen a tea cup quite so beautiful."

As the lady handed it to them, suddenly the tea cup spoke, "You don't understand." the cup said, "I have not always been a tea cup. There was a time when I was just a lump of red clay. My master took me and rolled me, pounded and patted me over and over, and I yelled out, 'Don't do that. I don't like it! Let me alone.' But the potter only smiled, and gently said, "Not yet!!"

Then, WHAM! I was placed on a spinning wheel and suddenly I was spun around and around and around. "Stop it! I'm getting so dizzy! I'm going to be sick!" I screamed. But the master only nodded and said, quietly, "Not yet." He spun me and poked and prodded and bent me out of shape to suit himself and then...Then he put me in the oven. I never felt such heat. I yelled and knocked and pounded at the door. "Help! Get me out of here!" I could see him through the opening and I could read his lips as he shook his head from side to side, "Not yet." When I thought I couldn't bear it another minute, the door opened. He carefully took me out and put me on the shelf, and I began to cool. Oh, that felt so good! Ah, this is much better, I thought. But, after I cooled, he picked me up and he brushed and painted me all over. The fumes were horrible. I thought I would gag. "Oh, please, Stop it, Stop it!!" I cried. He only shook his head and said. "Not yet!"

Then suddenly he put me back in to the oven. Only it was not like the first one. This was twice as hot and I just knew I would suffocate. I begged. I pleaded. I screamed. I cried. I was convinced I would never make it. I was ready to give up. Just then the door opened and he took me out and again placed me on the shelf, where I cooled and waited... and waited, wondering what he is going to do to me next? An hour later he handed me a mirror and said, "Look at yourself," and I did. I said, "That's not me. That couldn't be me. It's beautiful... I'm beautiful!"

Quietly he spoke: "I want you to remember this," he said, "I know it hurt to be rolled and patted, but had I left you alone, you'd have dried up. I know it made you dizzy to spin around on the wheel, but if I had stopped, you would have crumbled. I know it hurt and it was hot and disagreeable in the oven, but if I hadn't put you there, you would have cracked. I know the fumes were bad when I brushed and painted you all over, but if I hadn't done that, you never would have hardened. You would not have had any color in your life. If I hadn't put you back in that second oven, you wouldn't have survived for long because the hardness would not have held. Now you are a finished product. Now you are what I had in mind when I first began with you."

The moral of this story is this: God knows what He's doing in each of us. He is the potter, and we are his clay. He will mold us and make us, and expose us to just enough pressures of just the right kinds that we may be made into a flawless piece of work to fulfill His good, pleasing and perfect will.

So when life seems hard, and you are being pounded and patted and pushed almost beyond endurance; when your world seems to be spinning out of control; when you feel like you are in a fiery furnace of trials; when life seems to "stink", try this...Brew a cup of your favorite tea in your prettiest tea cup, sit down and think on this story and then... Have a little talk with the Potter.

[Orich]

Wow.
Thank you. Both.

[Orich]

At a party right now. Having fun, but it is weird without W. There is an unsettling melancholy. Many others here are with there spouses. This is the first party I've been to since the beginning of the Great Sadness.