WAW Using God

[pigskin]

She knows damn well what she is doing wrong whether she believes in God, Satan, Nothing or she sacrifices donkeys buck naked in the middle of a field when you are all sleeping...


The man is a predator (I think that is the word Puppy used about the OW in my sitch)...

They will find ANY and ALL excuses to continue the EA...

ANY & ALL...Remember that...

Take the advice you are getting and put it to use asap...

Trust me when I say it will only benefit you....

No doubt she knows what she's doing is wrong. She has admitted that. Her struggle with that is a testament to the "screwed up chemicals in the brain" that an EA causes, as in all other things she is a wonderful person.

I actually met with the OM a few weeks ago and heard his side of the story. Big grains of salt taken on my part, rest assured. I do feel sorry for his situation as it completely sucks, but I don't for a second excuse his behavior.

I haven't asked any for any detail from my wife about their interactions since that meeting, though she did offer that they ran an errand together but denied anything inappropriate occurred. My wife was very anxious about that meeting fearing I would say something to push him away, but I was very cordial and respectful throughout, which probably surprised the hell out of him (and her).

Maybe a no no in meeting with him, but I felt I needed for him to put a face to the damage he is doing, and gives me justification for accountability in the future. He is a pretty sorry specimen emotionally, didn't come off as a "predator" but I realize that could be all part of the game. Being a pretty devout Christian he too is confused by his own suffering in marriage and unsure whether or not God will help save his own marriage. But again, that doesn't give him an excuse to do what he's doing.

As for the excuses for continuing the EA, I'm well aware of that and don't take anything said with much trust at all, no matter how sincere it sounds. I keep in mind the old "WWJD" (What Would Jesus Do) mantra to guide my words and actions, and although it is tricky at times, THAT is how I want to handle myself. I just pray my judgment is sound.

On a side note, I've been reading your thread Serenity, and my heart and prayers go out to you. Thanks for your advice.

[pigskin]

God told her separation was the thing to do, apparently.

Maybe it was. I did pray and ask God to make me more humble and a better father. Perhaps, being such a blockhead, I needed a good scare. The problem is I can't see God condoning a divorce at all (unless there's significant physical abuse or serial infidelity or the like - but there was nothing like that in our marriage).

I totally agree, Wolf. Same situation here.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

My wife was very anxious about that meeting fearing I would say something to push him away, but I was very cordial and respectful throughout, which probably surprised the hell out of him (and her).

Ugh. Cordial, yes. Respectful -- hell no.

Meeting with OM/OW is never recommended. It's one of the very few things ("Don't move out of your own marital home or bed" is the other) that get near-consensus opinion around here. It elevates him in importance, gives them something to have in common (for them to talk about you meeting with him, what you said, etc.), and it comes across as WEAK, ironically.

Furthermore, almost all LBSs read way too much truth into the exchange. What you get from an OM/OW is, at best, "spin" -- and at worst, LIES AND DECEPTION.

Puppy

[pigskin]

Pigskin -

Stop rationalizing and justifying your W's behavior. Her A is NOT acceptable. As a fellow Catholic, you KNOW that.

IMO, something was missing in your W's life. She needed to fill a void and along came OM and God. Chance/fate/circumstance brought these two things into your W's life at the same time but they are mutually exclusive.

I hear you, Ashlee. I don't accept the actions at all.

She was missing an emotional connection between us and someone to understand her feelings. I do understand them now, through the communication efforts we've been making with the help of Retrouvaille.

My views on her behavior before the EA were totally wrong in the way I was explaining them to myself. But again she didn't communicate them effectively (though in her mind she did) and I never probed deep enough with questions to get at the real reasons for her unhappiness. I was walking on eggshells as she was very sensitive with regards to depression. The communication breakdown was the fault of both of us.

That part I understand. But I don't use that to justify the EA. Not at all. That was a conscious decision on her part to do something she knows is wrong.

[pigskin]

Hi Pigskin...
...rather, I think you should see what's been missing in your M - not just in terms of what you've offered your W - but also in terms of yourself.

Remember who you were when your W fell in love with you? There must be something mighty alluring about that Clint Eastwood type...and you just have to find part of that alluring side again.

Thanks for the comments healthydad. I have been doing just that.

I also agree that it's extremely important that you set boundaries - and that she know that some actions and words with OM are unacceptable.

...As for dealing with the EA/PA, there are two differing philosophies you'll find here - one that encourages you to know what you're up against - the other approach - which you'll find in DB/DR - recommends that you allow the WAS the freedom to travel the journey they must - let go - and focus on yourself...

It seems you already know that there's an EA...but that's where the questions start - some maintain that questioning your W will push her into EA's arms - (smartcooking, who doesn't post much anymore, used to talk about how this happened for her when her H challenged her on her online EA) - while others suggest you get it out in the open - and deal with the EA head on - especially if you know what your deal-breakers are...

I am starting to set boundaries. And I'm using a nuanced approach combining the Retrouvaile communication aspects along with the "tough love" detachment.

The EA is in the open. Quite a few people at her job know about the EA and disapprove; people she trusts. Her parents know about it as well and have agreed to not take sides although I sense they side with me. They love their grandkids and my wife and I and don't want to see our family broken. They've been good about keeping their distance and letting us handle it.

One question - how long has the EA been going on?

Since the end of March '09, although the friendship started earlier. My wife told me about it pretty early, about a month and a half into it.

[Serenity13]

Good for you Pigskin...

Just don't get blindsided like I did...

I am not trying to be harsh in anyway...

I am only going by what has happened to me and hopefully help someone else avoid the same thing happening to them.

My heart and prayers are with you as well. (((Hugs)))

[pigskin]

My wife was very anxious about that meeting fearing I would say something to push him away, but I was very cordial and respectful throughout, which probably surprised the hell out of him (and her).

Ugh. Cordial, yes. Respectful -- hell no.

Meeting with OM/OW is never recommended. It's one of the very few things ("Don't move out of your own marital home or bed" is the other) that get near-consensus opinion around here. It elevates him in importance, gives them something to have in common (for them to talk about you meeting with him, what you said, etc.), and it comes across as WEAK, ironically.

Furthermore, almost all LBSs read way too much truth into the exchange. What you get from an OM/OW is, at best, "spin" -- and at worst, LIES AND DECEPTION.

Puppy

It was just something I felt I needed to do. I used to manage quite a large amount of people and I always felt I needed to sit them down away from everyone else and hear their side before correcting their behavior.

I realize that an EA is a totally different situation than that in the corporate world, and I can't "correct" another person who is not a subordinate, but that's "how I roll". My thinking is that we're all human and prone to mistakes, even huge, horrible ones. I wanted to let him know I understood that. But from here on out, you are now accountable for your future actions. I have no intention of ever speaking with him again.

If that comes off as being weak, well, what's done is done. I'm a pretty muscular guy and the OM was a bit worried (even his wife hoped I'd be less cordial). I would never get physical, of course, but if fear of that helps him alter his behavior, so much the better. He can no longer use the excuse of "It was never our intent, I'm sorry (both of which he said to me), it won't happen again". My focus is on myself and my wife's behavior and making her WANT to stop because what she has is better that what she is getting/will get from him.

In my mind, it lets the both of them know that they are dealing with someone different than they expected. Maybe to increase the guilt in continuing the behavior -- "Wow, what a good man. How can I be such a prick." Not lashing out in rage, which would be the normal, and even justified reaction for someone in my situation.

Whether this had the desired effect, I'll never know, and I have zero expectations that it will. But I don't think Jesus would condemn the man, just the actions. And that's pretty much what I'm doing.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Pigskin,

I totally get it, I really do. But you're projecting your own good intentions and character on to a man who has none -- HE IS A PREDATOR.

And you're right -- you don't "correct the behavior" of two people caught up in an affair. The way it was explained to me is "you can't teach an adulterer," and I think that's true.

I do respect your stand; I've just never seen where it's been effective, and a lot of times it's actually harmful (for the reasons I stated).

Puppy

[pigskin]

Pigskin,

I totally get it, I really do. But you're projecting your own good intentions and character on to a man who has none -- HE IS A PREDATOR.

And you're right -- you don't "correct the behavior" of two people caught up in an affair. The way it was explained to me is "you can't teach an adulterer," and I think that's true.

I do respect your stand; I've just never seen where it's been effective, and a lot of times it's actually harmful (for the reasons I stated).

Puppy

Yep, I hear you Pup. And thank you for your replies. But the meeting is in the past and there's nothing I can do about it. It will however help me view the guy as a predator now since I've done my "Mr. Nice Guy" bit and gave him a chance to walk away. Anything from this point on now allows me to justifiably view him as a man of despicable character (I know, I had that right before but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt) and not someone who just happened to make a terrible mistake for which he is sorry.

[Faith2010]

the meeting is in the past and there's nothing I can do about it. It will however help me view the guy as a predator now since I've done my "Mr. Nice Guy" bit and gave him a chance to walk away. Anything from this point on now allows me to justifiably view him as a man of despicable character (I know, I had that right before but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt) and not someone who just happened to make a terrible mistake for which he is sorry.

Pigskin-

I understand and respect where you are coming from. When I wanted to call the OW, it was in the hope that if OW knew what she was doing to me, my S and our family, she would have the decency to stop it. As many on this board pointed out, it was a far-fetched dream. Why would a person who never met me or my S care when the man I married didn't give a sh!t what he was doing to us?

How are things today with W?