Over the Shock and GALing 6

[Sara]

Thinker,

I think you did the right thing. Living in limbo is bad for everyone. Even divorce is preferable to that.

I am not a fan of what I think I understand to be Smiley's suggestion that you live in the house with her but be dark. I tried that with my husband when I was an unhappy spouse. I pretended I never saw him. In fact, I averted my eyes and cut him out of my view at all times. And it only made things worse. We were at that stalemate of neither of us would leave the house and kids. It was deep limbo and it was ugly.

The only hope is that she fears divorce at least as much as you do. If she is not financially dependent on you, then she may not be concerned about keeping up her lifestyle. But if she needs the security of marriage for roof and food and other things, then what child support will offer her won't be enough. And she may as well face the reality and make an informed decision.

Good luck. I hope you find a sitter for tonight. And I hope you have a good C.

[Sara]

T,

I just had a thought that I find disquieting. Trying to think of the motivation for BFF's BF to flirt with your wife. It is not outside the realm of possibility that he figures he could get these 2 best friends into bed together for a threesome. In fact, he may even have approval from BFF to try.

[Thinker]

@Sara,

Knowing BFF and BFF's BF, It would not surprise me one bit.

[Thinker]

I am not a fan of what I think I understand to be Smiley's suggestion that you live in the house with her but be dark. I tried that with my husband when I was an unhappy spouse. I pretended I never saw him. In fact, I averted my eyes and cut him out of my view at all times. And it only made things worse. We were at that stalemate of neither of us would leave the house and kids. It was deep limbo and it was ugly.

I have also tried living like that. Things just start spiraling downward.

In fact, we have been living sort of like that now - polite, but no real interaction - and my W is using it as her justification for doing what she is doing - "We are not really married anyway, see"

The only hope is that she fears divorce at least as much as you do. If she is not financially dependent on you, then she may not be concerned about keeping up her lifestyle. But if she needs the security of marriage for roof and food and other things, then what child support will offer her won't be enough. And she may as well face the reality and make an informed decision.

She is completely financially dependent on me. Her job is fun, get's her back into her field (and allows her to meet all sorts of interesting people ), but is only a few hours per week and after taxes barely pay's enough to cover a babysitter.

Good luck. I hope you find a sitter for tonight. And I hope you have a good C.

We should be able to find a sitter. Not being able to find one would really be only an excuse. In a last resort we have plenty of friends who would be willing to sit in our house for an hour.

Our C, however, is not so great. I like him as a listener, but so far he has done nothing to actively try to pull my W into the process.

[Thinker]

@Sara,

Knowing BFF and BFF's BF, It would not surprise me one bit.

I think it is more likely, however, that despite having D'd his own wife and now being "with" BFF, BFF's BF has never stopped being who he is. The man who cheated on his wife and looked around for a frustrated SAHM to entertain himself with (and found BFF), is now bored in his current R with BFF and is looking for another frustrated SAHM.

[Coach]

Think, Call the meeting to order, your wife isn't going to do it. Spell out the boundaries, what you need to happen by her to go forward and what she needs from you. You did all that self-growth, learning and loving yourself to get to this point. Be clear about what you want then draft a plan. You have to be logical but speak to her emotions. You cannot let her emotions overwhelm or cloud the issues. State what you have decided you want.
Be prepared for the conversation to get emotional. If it gets heated you need a fall back position. "This dialouge is no longer productive with us this upset I am going to stop and we can discuss this again later." (Put it in Thinkspeak)
Time to lead brother. You can handle it.
Cheers
Coach

[Thinker]

Spell out the boundaries, what you need to happen by her to go forward and what she needs from you.

Here you lost me - how do I spell out what she needs from me?

Also, I'm still struggling with what I need to happen by her. Working on that...

You did all that self-growth, learning and loving yourself to get to this point.

Still a work in progress, but thank you!

Be clear about what you want then draft a plan. You have to be logical but speak to her emotions. You cannot let her emotions overwhelm or cloud the issues. State what you have decided you want.

What do I want?
- I want her to stop blaming everything on me and take some responsibility.
- I want her to stop looking to other men to make her happy.
- I want her to commit to working on the R.
- I want her to stop simply saying "I don't know what I want" and withdrawing any time the question of the M comes up.

I am struggling with framing this in concrete measurable actions.

Be prepared for the conversation to get emotional. If it gets heated you need a fall back position. "This dialouge is no longer productive with us this upset I am going to stop and we can discuss this again later." (Put it in Thinkspeak)

Great advice. Write it out and memorize it so it is still available when I am angry.

[Coach]

Here you lost me - how do I spell out what she needs from me?

Her needs spoken by her.

What do I want?
- I want her to stop blaming everything on me and take some responsibility.
- I want her to stop looking to other men to make her happy.
- I want her to commit to working on the R.
- I want her to stop simply saying "I don't know what I want" and withdrawing any time the question of the M comes up.

1 - No blaming her, show her the what you have learned and how you are taking responsibility

2- Show her how you are responsible for your own happiness and how you are doing it. Let her know you want her to be happy, if she can't be happy with you then that is fine you will thrive anyway (detach from outcomes)

3- Show her how and why you are committed to working on the R.

4- Be very clear on what you want. Let her know action will be taken now.

You will earn respect by leading. She will find this attractive even if she doesn't show you, she will probably test you on your resolve here.

You are handling it. Strength and Honor.

Cheers

[aliveandkicking]

1 - No blaming her, show her the what you have learned and how you are taking responsibility

2- Show her how you are responsible for your own happiness and how you are doing it. Let her know you want her to be happy, if she can't be happy with you then that is fine you will thrive anyway (detach from outcomes)

3- Show her how and why you are committed to working on the R.

4- Be very clear on what you want. Let her know action will be taken now.

You will earn respect by leading. She will find this attractive even if she doesn't show you, she will probably test you on your resolve here.

This would have had me back in my M when I was all but gone...

No guarantees on your W Thinker but in MY heart that was what I wanted...

[Thinker]

Here are my current thoughts,

They are bulleted and phrased directly - probably not how I would say them.

1-3 I think I understand, although I want to keep thinking about them so I can weed out the selfishness and word them in a more loving way. (feedback is welcome)

I am still a bit lost on #4 - concrete actions that are not unenforceable or unreasonable demands. (feedback definitely welcome)

----

1) I understand and see that I have done many things, failed to do some others, and acted in ways in the past that have hurt you and hurt our M. I take responsibility for this. I am sorry, I really am. I do not intend for this to continue or reoccur. I am going to continue to look for and correct any destructive behaviors on my part. It will help me if you help me understand these behaviors and which are the most hurtful, so that I can work on them first.

(Thought bubble: Gritting my teeth because W continues to maintain that all bad things in the R were 100% because of me - all my fault because I was such a horrible person)

2) I understand that you are not happy in our M now, and that you believe you may never be able to be happy while married to me. This makes me sad, and I obviously don't like it, but I accept it. I want you to be happy, and If you truly can not be happy with me, then I will accept that as well. Please make your decision as to whether you want to stay and work on the M based on what will truly be best for you, taking everything into consideration. If you decide to proceed with Divorce, then I will be OK. I will move on with my life.

3)I am sorry, but I can not keep living in the purgatory that is our current relationship. I need to move in one direction or the other. My clear desire, based on what I think is the best choice for all of us, is to do what we have not yet done, and actively work on improving our relationship. We have built a family together here, and you are part of that family - an important and valued part. Despite all of the pain and bad feelings that have built up between us, that family is worth fighting for.

I am willing to really listen to you and understand you, your pains, your needs and your desires. You are important to me. I understand that I have not listened well in the past, and with the help of our counselor, I want to work to change that.

I am willing to go through the emotional pain of the Retrouvaille process. I am willing to confront myself and my issues. I am willing to work with a counselor to work on improving myself and our relationship. If that is not working, I am willing to try a different counselor. If none of this works and we come to the conclusion that the Marriage is not workable, then I am willing to work on a plan for cooperatively raising our children while divorced.

4. In order to try to fight for our family, I request the following from you.

- Please confirm that you will participate in Retrouvaille in September. We'll send in the registration and check today and commit to attending.

- Immediately cut off any and all inappropriate relationships with other men - the two that we talked about, as well as any others that are going on. You know what they are. If the men text you, do not respond.

(Not sure what else I want... Retrouvaille is a long way away)

I understand and accept if you can not make these commitments because you have decided that you wish to end the marriage. We can make an appointment with a mediator and start collaboratively building a plan for how we will dissolve the marriage.