Changing Man

[givingitmyall]

Great advice from Gypsy (and I am in the alt world).

Gardener, these types of days ARE going to happen. Like AAK said, you ARE human. Just accept it, and move forward. You cannot do anything about the past. And if you worry about what you did or did not do, that is just going to take you down further. We ALL could look back and see things we did wrong, and we would love to go back and change that. But we can't. All we can do is become the new person who may or may not be good enough for our spouses.

Funny thing is the more we change into really great people, the more WE have to wonder if our spouses are good enough for US.

Hang in there man. I know you won't let this get you down for long.

[Gardener]

*hugs*

PS.. are you in the alternate universe?

Gypsy,
Thanks.Read your reply quickly. Will re-read when I get home. And think. And reply. In the meantime, yes I am. Look for the photo of the hiker..
*Hugs* back.Thanks again.

[Gardener]

Gima,

Funny thing is the more we change into really great people, the more WE have to wonder if our spouses are good enough for US.

Hang in there man. I know you won't let this get you down for long.

1)Not really great, yet, but (humbly) trying.
2)I do. She is. (She was?).
Not down, today. Just confused, again.
Thanks. Gotta go. More later.

[Gardener]

Oh no, there's advice in there...

Thanks, aak.. Looking. Looking...There it is. Nope, don't see it. Can't see it. Wait a minnit. Nope.
Aarrrgghhh!
Not being facetious or a wisea$$. Not sure I really get your point. Could be because I'm looking for more than your obvious point.
But I'm pressed for time. Will ponder later.
Thanks.

[Coach]

In December, after moving, she said to me in her apartment "Come back to me, Gardener," She may have been the one who moved, but I knew deep down what she meant.
January: "I love you, Gardener. You."
February: "Be my hero, Gardener." Then the aforementioned V day card.
March: "I still need us, Gardener."

What did you do when she told you these things?
Has she told you things like this before?
What are her LLs?

[Gardener]

Coach,

In December, after moving, she said to me in her apartment "Come back to me, Gardener," She may have been the one who moved, but I knew deep down what she meant.
January: "I love you, Gardener. You."
February: "Be my hero, Gardener." Then the aforementioned V day card.
March: "I still need us, Gardener."

What did you do when she told you these things?
Has she told you things like this before? Coach,
What are her LLs

Good to hear from you. Thanks. Had to come back to the house to meet refrigerator repairman, so I have a few unexpected minutes.

In December, I replied, "I'm coming." What did I do? Started meds for depression. Kept being her friend, worked on me, us (MC), read R books myself and jointly with her. Other than that, it was still early post-bomb/pre DB, so, frankly, I continued pleading, crying, being a wreck, walking on eggshells around her and falling apart like any good victim does.

January: "I know. I love you, too." What did I do? I little more of the good, a little less of the bad (above). She started pulling back. Stopped saying it was a respite, started saying it was a separation, started telling friends, co-workers. Informed me no more sex/overnights at her apartment/spending weekends together.

February: "I will." Though I didn't even know what she meant and didn't ask her until a month or so later. By then she was pulled away even more and replied, "Oh, that. Be stronger, more positive." I continued to work earnestly on me(started IC) us, when I did see her. MC, listening skills, honoring her requests ("don't call me," "Just leave me alone").Validated and copped to all that I had done to hurt her and contribute to growing distance. Adhering to MC's advice: get out of her face, stop being so intense, stop talking so much, stop with the "unbridled self-expression" (who, me? (MC sessions were, frankly, pro her, anti (not-pro)-me. I was labeled the "major offender" from day one).

March: Her statement came mid-month on a postponed Valentine's day trip. I replied, "so do I." Didn't do much different, didn't even ask her what that meant for her, too her. Eggshells, eggshells, eggshells.In March we took a already-planned vacation with friends. A disaster. I couldn't do anyhing right. I was flabbergasted. Upon returning, MC said (short version), she's reacting to what she thinks I said, what she thinks I did, what she thinks I meant. Reacting to trigger words and events like she reacted to E-abusive mother and P-abusive father.

Oh, and she has, and had, told me things like this before.

During month of no contact I really worked on me. Read, journaled, stopped talking to the well-intentioned to vent or for advice. Began meditating, exercising.

April's "I may not be re-entering our marriage, you know," came outside MC's office after 2 hour session (?). I replied, "I know. That would be a shame."

May's D Bomb, followed by MC announcing MC is over (and her continuing to see him a couple of times), I fell apart all over.
Then told myself, "For six months you did everything, read everything you were asked to do by her, by MC, by books, by inner voice.Copped to everything. It didn't work.She pulled further and further away Maybe it never was going to work. You did yor best. Now Rest. And heal." Printed it out and hung it on bedroom mirror. And started to feel better. Then found DR, DB, Telecoach, and started LTR and taking (some) positive action. Then more. Some response from her. Curiosity. Reaching out a bit.
Don't know anymore if DB/LRT will be effective. She's seemingly done. And as I posted once before, I have to acknowledge her penchant for cutting people out of her life and shunning them when she's reached a cumulative/last straw amount of hurt (her first H, her M, Her F, one S. one or two acquaintances).
So here I am. Over-answering your questions (unbridled self-expression).
Thanks.
I don't know her LL, haven't gotten that one yet

[aliveandkicking]

Oh no, there's advice in there...

Thanks, aak.. Looking. Looking...There it is. Nope, don't see it. Can't see it. Wait a minnit. Nope.
Aarrrgghhh!
Not being facetious or a wisea$$. Not sure I really get your point. Could be because I'm looking for more than your obvious point.
But I'm pressed for time. Will ponder later.
Thanks.

My two cents. You are very hard on yourself (I can relate). You may be attempting to pursue this like a marathon at the end of which you win the trophy (W)...at a certain point I don't believe there is a chance the WAS will forgive or believe your changes if you are still grasping for how to break through to them. One who is strong and secure and more desirable judges him/herself by his/her own standards (now that you are on such a positive track you can probably trust yourself more).

In spite of all the progress, it is important to be mindful of the inherent suffering in these sitches. I can't remember if it was you who commented on the article I posted about mindfulness therapy. Very basically, you know that pain and suffering are parts of life and parts of you and you refrain from resisting or trying to avoid those feelings. You live and know they are there and they don't own you.

I keep thinking that if I was evolved enough, I could get through this without so much pain, but my best days are one's in which I let it be. I am human.

I love your proclamation "The Lord Giveth detachment..." Throughout the years whether you and W are back together or not, you may have moments that hit you or hurt or feel too attached. It is ok.

So, you, all of you, including a rough night, or sad feelings, or questions on here, or humility, confusion, whatever are all ok. You are a good and sincere guy it seems. Again, I think you can trust yourself more and accept that you are human.

Oh, and do what Coach says.

[Coach]

G-Man, You are doing fine. You need to show your wife how to forgive and what comapssion is. She has never sen this modeled for her IMO.

Upon returning, MC said (short version), she's reacting to what she thinks I said, what she thinks I did, what she thinks I meant. Reacting to trigger words and events like she reacted to E-abusive mother and P-abusive father.

I have to acknowledge her penchant for cutting people out of her life and shunning them when she's reached a cumulative/last straw amount of hurt (her first H, her M, Her F, one S. one or two acquaintances).

She is reacting to you like how she coped as a child, he can't hurt me if I am gone. She see's things as hopeless so this is how she copes, not healthy but it's what she knows. When she mind reads point it out to her. Let her know what you think, feel and believe.
Love languages - how did she love on you? That is probably hers.
You can handle it.
Cheers

ps Don't do what I say. Filter it, think about it and discern if it is valid for your sitch. Then apply it as you see fit to the best of your ability.

[Gardener]

Gima, Gypsy, Sandi, aak,Coach.

I would like to thank you all for your concern, advice, wisdom. You have all given me much to read, re-read, ponder and apply. And you all made me feel good again when I started not to. I am sure glad I did my backsliding here where so many of us have each other's back, when needed. Truly.

Worked late, dinner late DBboard late. First thing tomorrow, I am picking my wife up to go to re-fi closing.

Over the next day or so, I will give all your posts the time and attention they- and you - deserve. For now, I'm beat and going to bed.

Thanks again, guys.

[Gardener]

Journaling: Very interesting day. First I'll jump to early afternoon talk with IC. Went over my "meltdown" of the other night, angst, etc., as well as the Cavalry rushing to the rescue (that'd be you guys). . IC recounted my physical, mental, spiritual, relational, etc. gains for a few minutes and then basically said your heart lags behind, Gardener. You hurt. Deeply. And when you hurt, you hurt. That resonated deeply. No analysis or over-analysis needed, Gardener. You hurt.

I hurt.

Back to beginning of the day. I picked up my wife to go to re-fi closing. Nice ride. When we park at bank she brings up Mediator again "Oh, no! Ahead of schedule. I'm not ready with my script!" .

No need, because then, wife suggests we look into it, read up on it, no need to do anything about it just yet, "How about we wait until we come back from (Gardener blended family annual seashore vacation)?"
"That sounds good. I'll give that some thought," says Gardener perfectly, (not even realizing he had turned his autopilot on).

Wait a minute: did she just suggest doing nothing (except agree to "look into it") for six more weeks?
Well this is certainly good.

Then she offers to give back my beloved, world's-best cat, which I had let her take when she moved, "because I know you miss him." Cue Twilight Zone music: "Do Do Do Do..." Did she somehow hear me talking to best-cat nonstop every time I went to her apartment the last five days to care for him while she was away? I declined, saying I don't want to topsy-turvy best-cat's universe again. And besides, best-cat and my wife's cute new dog are clearly a team, now: can't break up that team. (But-damn!-did I thank her for that thoughtful gesture? No. I'll do that tomorrow.
Well, this is certainly good.

Then, she says she'd like to take me out for ice cream tomorrow night for my birthday, if I'd like. "Sure. That'd be real nice."
Well, this is certainly good.

During the closing, I had a blast with our lawyer who is a very entertaining guy. I just joined in and enjoyed (bit of a 180 fer me) and several times, in the corner of my eye, I notice my wife turning her head looking at me (in some of my new not-my-usual-style clothes, I might add).
Well, this is certainly good.

Of course, all this could mean absolutely nothing, too. But, "look for changes?..."

Finished up good session with IC by tilling some of Gardener's soil out loud. What did I find? At the very bottom, core, of...me, lately - either alone or when I am with my wife -, my aforementioned hurt, that always bubbles below the surface is "...I am no longer ...wanted." No angst. No pity party. Just acknowledging the all-too-human root of the hurt.

And somehow before IC session ended, the subject of our vows came up...came out, actually. We have long maintained that though we were each wed before, we way too young, and that this - ours - was our first and only true marriage They were good, non-corny self-written vows. And I told IC - and me - that net them out, reduce them to their simplest and what I was really saying to her, our four children and the small group of friends and family there was this: "I am the person who will never give up on you."

I will not give up on her.

Thank you for reading.
Thank you for being here for me. I hope I have somehow given to some of you as much as you have given me.