WAW and 4 kids

[tryingtilDorR]

I am finding some interesting nuggets from Cobra in Puppy's old thread that I am dumping here so I can have it in one place. I see some value in these posts in relation to my sitch. Cobra advocates backing off of the hardline pressure to some extent....

This OM needs her more than she needs him. So she is really empowered when she is with him. What are you going to offer her?

Don’t you see that you and the kids hold the cards to empower and respect her more than this OM ever can? But you aren’t taking that approach, are you? Taking a “militaristic” approach and shaming her only works to a limited extent (and only for certain personality types), by showing her there is pain if she crosses “the line.” But the other half of setting a boundary is for her to experience pleasure, admiration, fulfillment by staying within “the line.” Those positive things can come from you. Just putting forth the model of a good husband will not be enough at this point. She is convinced there are plenty of other men who can be a good H. What will make her choose you over them?

I agree with you in part that cutting off relations is the best approach, but there is a risk, and while many have recovered their marriages, many others have pushed it right off the cliff. It feels good for a while to say you did the right thing and the spouse was wrong to continue the affair, but D is still D. If she can cut off the relationship cold turkey, then great, but so far I don’t see signs of that. I think what you have done so far is the right thing. I just think going forward you need to re-evaluate.

I feel like I am in this situation - she has reduced interaction with OM but hasn't cut it off completely and I don't think hardline will make it happen either at this point since I have tried it short of filing for D (which puppy did BTW). She doesn't have the financial concerns that Puppy's W was facing for one - she can work full time and make an excellent living but she is wary of having to work more -her life is too comfy and she values it.

She is still in the house with you. You are still married. Counseling can still fix this marriage, even if she has some contact with the OM. There are lots of couples who have been able to do just this, so don’t think that having her cut off relations entirely is the only path. Is see her hanging on to the OM as not just an addiction, but as a safe haven away from you. Forcing her to cut of the affair might work, it might not. Things might not change until the stakes are so high and the damage so severe that she capitulates or walks. Those are not the kind of probabilities I would want to stake my recovery on. She is addicted because of her fear, and breaking this kind of addiction can be a gradual process.

The point about counseling even though there is an OM around is not one you hear often. I have been wondering if MC would be a reasonable thing at this point, and the one thing holding me back is that the OM is still in the picture. I don't have blatant evidence that they are as involved as they were before, outside of the fact that W has no motivation towards R. Maybe I should consider doing MC? If I asked her she would probably go.

I'm not proposing in any way that you ease her guilt, but she has to have something positive to work toward. And contrary to your comment OTB, I do think Choc has a LOT to prove to Mrs.Choc. There is no way she can be solely faulted for the withholding that occurred in the marriage. Both of them did their own withholding. She is trying to state this. How much truth there is in her version is debatable, but that does not really matter. If she believes it, she believes it, and she must be validated. Other wise she will seek validation elsewhere. Just be careful.

So let her go thinking that she is keeping up appearances for sake of the kids. What does it matter why she goes, so long as she goes? As the issues come out, it will become clear enough to her what the true problems are, but not going at all will allow the fog of denial to stay over her. Her statement about “trying” is just a deflection. If it were over, she would say it is over and she would leave. She doesn’t want to be the bad guy, to be blamed or have to deal with the guilt. This is one way she can justify her actions. But at the same time she is too scared to leave on her own, so she plays along with you by saying she will attend counseling.

Again, who cares what her reasons are. They are all deflections, delusions, justifications, etc. All those ideas will change over time with proper counseling, EVEN IF SHE IS STILL SEEING THE OM. Be sure your insistence that she stop seeing the OM first is not just another morality power play over her, or some way to feel like you are "getting even." That is only another form of escalation.

I know that Puppy escalated to the point of filing for D and that turned the tide. My choices are to push that far (Sandi doesn't recommend it) to see if she breaks and I kind of tried that recently with my ultimatum of NO CONTACT or LEAVE, or just focus on making myself the better choice for her over OM. Cobra (and Sandi) recommend the latter. Puppy's situation is sooooo like my own, but my W has a better financial situation and can rely on herself.

Anyway - Puppy's old thread from 2007 is a goldmine of information because I feel like I am reading my own story.