If you are driving, perhaps turn on the radio or play the silent game. Or just smile at her each time she talks and don't say a thing. I know, easier said than done.
Good luck, you'll need it!
Me: 39 H: 39 S: 15 M: 18 years Bomb: 6/3/09 H moved out: 10/15/09 H moved back:5/30/10
So we survived the long car trip without killing each other. Things are still tense, but not horrible.
Since our discussion I have not brought up Retrouvaille again. I'm waiting to see what she does. She has the letter from them with the info and the tel number, and I saw her pick it up this am, so she is thinking about it.
In parallel this morning, I called and had an introductory discussion with a mediator. He seemed very competent, direct and straight forward. He pointed out that mediation is the time and place to put aside the emotions and put together a detailed, realistic plan for how each of you is going to live post divorce - a financial and child rearing life plan. The results are non-binding and confidential (non-admissible in court), but most of the time the mediator then drafts up an agreement which (after legal review) becomes the final agreement.
Much like Retrouvaille, however, the mediator was clear that mediation only works if both parties are open and committed to the process, and the next step would be for Mrs. Thinker to call him (she would have to take an active step) and agree to the process.
So here is where I see the decision tree for the Thinkers:
Option 1: Work on saving the family - Retrouvaille. Cost: $500-600 including the hotel and meals, donation for the program, and babysitting. Time required: 40 hours. Emotional investment - openness, willingness to look at ourselves, painful introspection etc.
Option 2: Take a good hard look at post-D life and plan how it will work. - Mitigation Cost: $2000 for the 3-4 initial sessions. Another $2-$3000 to finalize the D if it goes this route. Time required: 10 hours of mediation sessions. Additional time as required to collect financial info, etc. Emotional Investment - hard painful work to face reality and plan out what a post-D life would look like.
Option 3: Start from unrealistic points of view and fight it out - Get a L and file. Cost: $20-50K. Emotional Investment - huge fighting, bad feelings, difficult post-D working relationship.
Option 4: Stay as things are - Limboland
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I have reached the point where I don't believe option 4 can work. We are just getting farther and farther apart and the wall between us is getting higher and stronger. For details, see the posts over the weekend, but for all intensive purposes, I am done hanging on to this one. This is the one Mrs. Thinker seems to be hanging on to by default, because it does not require her to have difficult discussions or face difficult truths.
Option 3 is just wrong for us - bad thing to do if it can be avoided.
That leaves Options 1 and 2.
Both Option 1 and 2 require active and willing participation from her, and both require honesty, openness, collaboration, and willingness to face difficult truths. They just move in different directions.
I have made my clear vote for Option 1: work on saving the family.
If she is unwilling to go that route, then my next step is to say: "I accept that you do not want to stay in the marriage, do not believe that the R can or should be fixed, and do not wish to work on it. I don't like it, and it is not what I want, but I accept it. Therefore we should proceed with a mediator to work through the details and put together a plan for how we will be living our lives afterward.
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The only thing that gives me pause is that I feel I am the one pushing forward toward something that will hurt the kids. Intellectually, however, I know this is not the case. Here in Limboland we are currently slowly but surely moving toward divorce. The marriage will die a death by a thousand paper cuts. It's already half-way there.
If I force the decision - Option 1 or Option 2. Choose to work on the M, or choose to take a real close up and personal look at what a D would look like.
If she chooses Option 2, and takes a good hard look, and decides to proceed down the path of D, then I'll be OK.
Last edited by Thinker; 07/13/0904:22 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Are you going to present that list of options to her in writing or verbally?
I am not sure. Right now I am waiting to see what she does re Retrovaille. From the discussions this weekend she knows that the next move there is for her to call, and she knows that I said if she did not then I would contact a mediator. Let's see if she calls.
If she doesn't, then the best thing to do is probably to write it all out. Verbal communication isn't working very well between us right now.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
If she is unwilling to go that route, then my next step is to say: "I accept that you do not want to stay in the marriage, do not believe that the R can or should be fixed, and do not wish to work on it. I don't like it, and it is not what I want, but I accept it. Therefore we should proceed with a mediator to work through the details and put together a plan for how we will be living our lives afterward.
I wonder if you need to even show her Options 3 & 4 if neither is tenable to YOU. As it is, 3 will be the default if neither 1 nor 2 is successful. Reminding her of 4 seems somewhat irrelevant...
It's purely semantics, and you have to write in Thinkerese, but I think you could tweak it a little to soften it sounding like "it's all about you" in her eyes and making it even clearer that you are accepting, but not agreeing with her decision.
Maybe something along these lines:
"I'm still not sure how you feel about Retro, and I am not asking you to tell me at this moment, but it is a decision that has to be made soon. I do want you to know that while it is something I want us to do, I would accept your decision not to go. And, if that's your decision, I also accept that you do not want to stay in our marriage. I get that you do not consider us husband and wife. I would accept your decision, even though I do not agree with it. If that is where you stand, let's proceed with a mediator to work through the details and put together a plan for how we will each be living our lives afterward." [Don't know if it's worth adding or not, but you could add something like: "And, if that's our next step, let's figure out how to protect the boys as best we can and begin this process sooner rather than later."]
Again, I don't think it's much different in substance, but the tone is slightly different. At some level, this is my interpretation of @Greek's comments about your W "putting on her big girl panties" and letting her go down the path SHE has chosen but taking control of what happens next based upon her decision AND letting her know at the same time that "limbo" and the "status quo" is not an acceptable option.
My question to you would be whether you want to pursue this path whether or not she goes to Retro? If she went to retro, I don't know how you would assess how long you want to give it to see if it "takes". Others probably far more familiar with that.
My two cents...
-AlexEN
P.S. How about writing it in a handwritten card for awkward occasions such as this?
Last edited by AlexEN; 07/13/0905:46 PM.
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
My question to you would be whether you want to pursue this path whether or not she goes to Retro? If she went to retro, I don't know how you would assess how long you want to give it to see if it "takes". Others probably far more familiar with that.
It's an interesting idea to pursue Retro and Mediation in parallel. This would ensure that when we are going through Retro we both have a very clear idea of the consequences associated with the alternative.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
My question to you would be whether you want to pursue this path whether or not she goes to Retro? If she went to retro, I don't know how you would assess how long you want to give it to see if it "takes". Others probably far more familiar with that.
It's an interesting idea to pursue Retro and Mediation in parallel. This would ensure that when we are going through Retro we both have a very clear idea of the consequences associated with the alternative.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
Will be interesting to see what others have to say about it...
Some may feel that it ties the two too closely... That is, would you want her to work on your marriage because she fears the consequences more than she wants to work on the marriage because she wants to work on the marriage (which she may or may not want to do)?
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
