Givignitmyall: I read your first thread, and there are many aspects of our situations that are quite similar, especially in terms of our wive's decisions to walk away, which seems disproportionate to our perceived levels of problems within our respective marriages.
Like you, I was receiving signals, but I did not understand them or chose not to understand them. All of that is water under the bridge at this point. I get it. I need to work on my communication skills if I ever get a chance to reconcile. "if" is the question and "How" do I kick start it.
The big difference is that you and your wife are still living under the same roof, so there is some type of interaction and communication taking place. Even if it is negative, you are still in each other's lives. My problem is that we are already physically separated. I idiotically moved out to save her the hassle and expense when she said that she wanted to live alone. I should have told her how to get to the nearest Motel 6. But...I'm too nice for that.
I am trying to figure out how I can have some relatively innocuous interaction with her, like a phone call, and whether or not, even that, will be perceived as pursuing behavior. Should I just back off compeletly and sever all contact of any kind?
A couple of weeks ago, I did give her some flowers. The response was, "I like the flowers, but it's too late for flowers and greeting cards. They aren't going to work."
M 57 W 52 Married 12, Together 14 No kids by this marriage 2nd marriage for both
In all honesty, I'm sitting here making these posts because I am rationalizing and I desperately want someone to say, "It's okay to interact with her a little bit. It's okay to call." I feel like an alcoholic in denial who looks at the glass and says, "But it's only wine!" Do I need to maintain more discipline and avoid making even a phone call? It might not even matter. For the past few weeks, I think she has been screening her calls with her answering machine (probably to avoid talking to me). Somebody, throw me a bone...
M 57 W 52 Married 12, Together 14 No kids by this marriage 2nd marriage for both
In all honesty, I'm sitting here making these posts because I am rationalizing and I desperately want someone to say, "It's okay to interact with her a little bit. It's okay to call." I feel like an alcoholic in denial who looks at the glass and says, "But it's only wine!" Do I need to maintain more discipline and avoid making even a phone call? It might not even matter. For the past few weeks, I think she has been screening her calls with her answering machine (probably to avoid talking to me). Somebody, throw me a bone...
It's not OK to interact with her right now, so don't initiate any communication with her right now. I know it's hard, and feels counter-intuitive, but this is something you need to do. It's not OK to call right now, so don't do it. If she communicates with you, then keep it short and simple. Be nice. Don't beg, plead, cry, or do any of that other stuff that you are naturally inclined to do under these circumstances...it will only push her further away. You have to focus on you right now, as hard as it is...YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON YOU RIGHT NOW! You have no control over her thoughts, feelings, or actions...so don't bother trying. You do have complete control over your own thoughts, feelings, and actions though...so exercise that control that you do have. Keep coming to this board for support, and to vent.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
You simply have to listen to the two or three basics that are common to every post to your thread.
This is DB Triage. Must do. First. Now.
Do not contact. Do not pursue. Do not plead, say I love you, flowers, etc. even if she contacts you. Use this time for you.
Depression? Check out the book The Ultramind Solution. It turned it around for me & Dr. is taking me off meds.
Givingitmyall has a similar situation as does lookingforhelp. And me. I don't know how to put a link here, so look at Gardener, Jumping in (first post) 6/03/09.
Keep writing, journaling, asking questions before you take actions you're not sure of.
And, yes, you have to maintain more discipline and avoid making even a phone call. Trust me. Trust us. "Throw me a bone, here..." You may be the first to ask us to throw you a bone. Usually, that's a standard line we all give our spouses when we are repulsively and unattractively in our panic/pleading stage/
Small steps. In order for it to have any chance of being better, you have to be better.
Gardener
"My soul, be satisfied with flowers, With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them In the one garden you may call your own." Cyrano deBergerac
In all honesty, I'm sitting here making these posts because I am rationalizing and I desperately want someone to say, "It's okay to interact with her a little bit. It's okay to call."
It IS okay to interact and it IS okay to call.
The key is to keep off ALL pressure. Women are attracted to confident men. A confident man calls when HE wants to call.
Remember.. You CAN call. You CAN interact. It is okay.
Just keep off all of the pressure. It is important to gauge whether she feels pressure from you. Keep it to small talk. Be happy. Those types of things. If you do call, please understand that you can also put yourself into a backslide by doing or saying the wrong things.
Try not to tell yourself that you "can't do this or can't do that" it puts too much pressure on yourself. You can call anytime you choose to. Confident people don't analyze and worry or stew over every little thing. They call if they want to call. The key is to figure out if calling her is so important that you are willing to risk that she feels it is pressure and sets the relationship back further.
Sounds like it's not about you, it's about her. She has to work through some stuff on her own, and you can't do a thing for it...other than leave her alone!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Antlers, Guccci, & Gardener: Thanks for the feedback.
I guess I'm looking for the magic bullet answer, and, of course, there is none. I know this intellectually, but, emotionally, it's hard to accept.
Like Gardener said, the common theme in your posts is to "back off." I guess that I equate "back off" with "back out," and I find it difficult to disengage from twelve years of commitment.
Here's my question to any and all of you- All of you are espousing the approach that is advocated in Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy of "disengaging." If you have taken that approach, what results, changes and/or improvements have you seen in your own relationships or are all of you still in the early stages where no big changes have occurred yet in your partner?
M 57 W 52 Married 12, Together 14 No kids by this marriage 2nd marriage for both
Antlers, Guccci, & Gardener: Thanks for the feedback.
I guess I'm looking for the magic bullet answer, and, of course, there is none. I know this intellectually, but, emotionally, it's hard to accept.
Like Gardener said, the common theme in your posts is to "back off." I guess that I equate "back off" with "back out," and I find it difficult to disengage from twelve years of commitment.
Here's my question to any and all of you- All of you are espousing the approach that is advocated in Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy of "disengaging." If you have taken that approach, what results, changes and/or improvements have you seen in your own relationships or are all of you still in the early stages where no big changes have occurred yet in your partner?
The results, changes and/or improvements I've seen have been in ME! Giving your wife the time and space that she has asked for is actually a very loving thing to do. It's selfish to keep smothering her when she has asked for time and space away from you. I started to focus on me, and the things that I did have control over...like my thoughts, feelings, and actions. And over time, and with hard work, I have become a better man, a better father, and a better partner. Will I get another chance with her...I don't know! She and I will both be better off if I get another chance with her now, and if I don't...then I will still be much better than I was because of the changes that I have made. These things take a lot more time than we want them to, and some take a lot longer than others do...depending on the people involved and the particular situation. My wife moved out on February 22nd of this year. She's working through the TONS of emotions that she has to deal with, and I'm working at what I've told you. It sucks for sure, but it's all I can do under the circumstances. You are being given good advice here, and it's backed up by Michelle herself.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Antlers, Guccci, & Gardener: Here's my question to any and all of you- All of you are espousing the approach that is advocated in Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy of "disengaging." If you have taken that approach, what results, changes and/or improvements have you seen in your own relationships or are all of you still in the early stages where no big changes have occurred yet in your partner?
The changes have been in me. With a few hints of changes in my wife when she is with me. I am able to see me/her/marriage more...clearly.I take care of myself physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. I dropped all that after the bomb and I weakened and ignored myself at the exact time that I needed my best, strongest, A-game me.
It is said that walkaway spouses know two things: they know their spouse and they know their spouse will never change. If my wife is paying attention - and she is, if reluctantly - she is questioning those "givens".
I have been DBing only 7 weeks now separated 8 months. Not calling her, not answering calls/emails immediately, making myself scarce, (re)connecting with old and new friends, renewing lapsed hobbies, etc. brought back life as opposed to just living. As a by-product (very important, a by-product, not a goal), she has made numerous, if small, movements toward instead of away. And has taken no action at all in 8 weeks re divorce process.
You know where I've arrived, c'ville (not completely, but damn near)? -I'm beginning to look forward to a wonderfully different relationship with my wife when we reconcile. -I'm beginning to look forward to a wonderfully different life if she chooses to remain on her solo journey. -I'm beginning to look forward.*
*My very brief and natural foray into melancholia last night (on my thread) notwithstanding
Last edited by Gardener; 07/11/0907:05 PM.
Gardener
"My soul, be satisfied with flowers, With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them In the one garden you may call your own." Cyrano deBergerac
The advice you have received from Antlers and Garndener (haven't seen gucci's posts) is dead on perfect. I would echo what they say. I've been DB'ing since April, and the last month has been about detaching. It really is the only way I know to keep your sanity in all this mess.
To respond to your post, you still use the DB techniques, and there will be times when there will be interactions. I did not go back to read your original thread (and I'm battling the beginnings of a sinus infection), but do you have kids?
Main point is that you cannot be the one to initiate contact. I know that seems counterintuitive (as does DB in general), but all that matters right now is her perception, be it right or wrong. If she perceives something you do as pursuit, it WILL turn her off. That's why you have to be careful, until you get more comfortable with YOU. That is where detaching comes in. If you place the focus of your effort on YOU (which is where it belongs), then you will find all the things Antlers and Gardener descried will be yours. You will come to the realization that no matter what, you will be ok. ADN YOU WILL. We LBS's initially feel like we are doomed b/c no one would want us, we are too old, out of shape, whatever - b/c we just took a gut shot to our self esteem - best way to hurt a man. But, with DB'ing, you will gain the most important thing in the world, your self respect and dignity. Without those, none of this will work. Really is about getting your balls back. I know it was for me.
So, get into DB mode and start doing the work. What have you read? What are you doing to work on you?
