Just my two cents about the "married until you are D" issue and being detached. According to what the majority of LBS say, it "is" the detaching that is the number one problem for them. Apparently there is a certain amount of "pain fog" for them b/c they can't seem to be able to think through a lot of situations and don't know when to go out with their S and when to decline. That is why many ask what to do here on the board. To me, it usually seems pretty clear in most situations, but that is b/c I am not emotionally involved, so I think that does play a very big part of the LBS's confusion. I believe a good rule of thumb that some could use in the beginning of their stitch when the WAS is very cold.....is to avoid any "romantic" events, especially avoid planning any in order to try to get closer to the S. If the WAS invites the LBS to a romantic event (which is unlikely in the beginning) then I say to do what one desires to do. I think it is smart to avoid certain intimate dinner parties, foursomes, and things like that b/c of the stress involved and b/c people notice....and talk. It does not "help" the stitch. When it comes to "family" events where it is for the sake of the children or other family members, I say that you have to think of others before yourself, most times. The biggest problem I see is that LBS's use these events as their "excuse" to be with the WAS.
For example,.....I will use "Thinker", since this is his thread....and maybe he knows I'm not picking on him. If I told him that I thought it would be a good idea to go to everything that came along (that requirred his W to be there too), then he would probably "jump" at the chance b/c that is what his heart wants to hear. He would agree with my idea real fast! However, if I said that I thought he ought to "never" go anywhere with his W, then needless to say he would feel down about that b/c it hurts him to think about never being with her at events. So, the point, IMHO, is to use some balance in these matters. Avoid romantic settings or "intimate environments", but attend family events where there are others around instead of just the two of you.
We all know that detaching is very important in order to be stand a chance at ever becoming attractive to the WAS. Yes, that includes a lot of being unavailable, GAL, declining invitations, etc. But, a family is still a family unit as long as the couple is together.....and in some cases I've seen.....they can still attend family events after a D. In some cases, there will be certain events that would be hard not to attend.
Oh, I go all around "grandma's house" to say anything!
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Funny, when the conversation is dating, everyone says, "you are married til you are divorced." So, when the subject is doing things with your spouse, why be confused? The same thing applies. You are married til you are divorced. Go to dinner, go to the movies, go camping with friends, you are a married couple, that's who you should go with. How is this different than the other discussion?
I like this. Anytime I could do something that spoke to my W's LLs I was all over it. I would take any opportunity to spend time with my wife while we were seperated. It started with meeting in the park to dinner to going to a concert. The concept of being married while seperated/limboland is "acting as if." Make yourself irresistible. Forget the limbo, the hurtful words, the D papers, and make sure she sees that you are worth another chance and if not then it's her loss. I didn't want to have any regrets that I didn't do my best so I would try anything. Some of it blew up some of it was priceless. Nothing was going to deter me. I was confused at times, tired, scared and lonely. But I was not going to go down without giving it my best shot, then I knew it was not meant to be. You are still married until the final bell. You two have a history,stories,family, connection, and familiarity. It takes time to develop a relationship like that. Don't discount what you do have. I wore my ring because I was still married. The idea of being married made boundaries very easy. I was also very aware of D papers and seperation I was dealing with. I just made my mind up to handle it with strength and honor. Hardest thing I ever had to do. Also the most rewarding thing I have ever done. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Your words are truly inspirational. Did you save your marriage with this philosophy...I'm not familiar with your story? I also still wear my wedding ring although my W does not. It's my reminder that it's not over yet.
Thanks, LFH
ME: 38 W: 35 D2.5 and S5 Married 12 years Separated (same house, different rooms) INILWYAM by W: 4/16/2009 The day W requested a D: 4/17/2009
If we are weighing in on dating while still married and wearing wedding rings during S - I am weraing my wedding band while in limboland and while I notice other women more now, I do not think it acceptable to take that next step and date before being D'd. The vows mean something no matter how W is acting right now.
We received an email from the local Retrouvaille team outlining the next steps in the registration process - W and I each need to call the organizing couple for a screening interview, and then we need to write our check for $400.
It also talked about committing to the entire weekend and then the follow-up sessions.
Upon reading the letter, Mrs. Thinker immediately looked distressed and began voicing concerns: "I don't know, It seems like a huge commitment of time and money. I'm not sure about this."
Of course this is ridiculous - $400, 1 weekend and 6 evenings to try to save a M is a pittance and a sound investment. We'll spend more than that sometimes to go visit a friend for the weekend somewhere. Just compare to the cost in money and time required for a divorce...
But of course, that is not really the issue, so I didn't contradict her. She is having second thoughts about going, is backing away and is latching onto time and $ as the excuses. I don't think proving to her that we can afford the money and should invest the time would get me anywhere.
"Thinking" right now about how hard I want to push, how much pressure I want to use before I proceed.
Any Feedback?
Last edited by Thinker; 07/10/0902:29 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Tough one buddy. This might the time for a little reality R talk. Business like and with facts. Lay it out.
Retro- $400 plus some time (X hrs) can help us sort out where we go, get Divorced or work on our family. This is voluntary.
Don't go= Limboland (and she called it, you get to live it) Let's talk about the reality if we don't go (how long are you going to stay in Limbo?)
Seperate then divorce. $ for two households(>$400?) monthly retainer for lawyers ($5000/each) just to get started kids will be changed forever quality of life will decrease for all of us are your kids in private school?
Your lawyer will want to know that your wife did not want to attend.
You can use this as a decision tree. It's one of those paradoxes. Plan out what you want either way. Her choice should have some consequences. Let her know where you stand very clearly. It helped me in the long run that my wife saw me fighting for her, our marriage and our family (didn't change her leaving/filing but I gained respect.) Do you find the staus quo acceptable? Leaders have to make tough choices. Approach this from a loving standpoint, make it win-win. What would you tell someone like GIMA or Stuck to do in this sitch?
You can handle it.
Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I would drop it if she has any kind of attitude about it ….she so much like my wife … it almost has to be her idea for it to do any good…I think she will just tune the whole thing out..
Remember when she went to the comedy club with you? she sent that text to her friend….
Well, I can see the text right now if you go …....at retrouvaille with H ....yuck... can’t wait to get this over with ...
My W just this morning texted me about Retro. She has said over and over again she would not do it. Now she wants to try. I don't think she knows how much it costs. If she did, she might have second thoughts, so since we have no money anyway, I am borrowing it from my parents and will pay it without her knowing if possible. This text message is the first positive thing W has said in a long, long time.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
I would drop it if she has any kind of attitude about it ….she so much like my wife … it almost has to be her idea for it to do any good…I think she will just tune the whole thing out..
Remember when she went to the comedy club with you? she sent that text to her friend….
Well, I can see the text right now if you go …....at retrouvaille with H ....yuck... can’t wait to get this over with ...
That's all mind reading. Why do anything if you already know how everybody else will react? Nobody ever changes. She always acts that way. All WAW are like that. It will never work.
Antidote: "Learned Optimism"
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I would drop it if she has any kind of attitude about it ….she so much like my wife … it almost has to be her idea for it to do any good…I think she will just tune the whole thing out..
Remember when she went to the comedy club with you? she sent that text to her friend….
Well, I can see the text right now if you go …....at retrouvaille with H ....yuck... can’t wait to get this over with ...
You're giving Thinker advice based on MINDREADING and CRYSTAL BALL GAZING. "I think", "I can see the text now"...
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
