I'm 31. wife 28. married 1,5 years. we've met online (skype) 2,5 years ago. spent countless hours talking face to face. she came to Poland for holidays, I came to Canada for a month... it clicked. came back home - sold apartment, quit the job and moved to Canada. we got married (03.2008) after half a year and were initially very happy.
Emigration was a big shock for me - I couldn't work cause paperwork took almost a year to get me eligible to work. Money I brought from Poland started running out, I got insecure... She promised it would be fine - and it wasn't. I used every opportunity to remind her she failed. She promised I'll have work permit quick etc etc.
She attended school / was working... I was constantly bringing her down - sitting at home, doing nothing, playing computer games all the time and being not content with her. I was a selfish bastard and I can see it now fully. I was bringing her down. At the same time she admits I helped her alot in her business - to setup everything, find an office etc. I was like in a split personality - constant mood swings.
My permanent residence came in 12.2008. 01.2009 I got a well paid job and it was all better for me. I wasn't insecure anymore. But it was a little too late it seems. She dropped a bomb 2 weeks ago. She said she doesn't love me anymore and in fact she never did. I saw her getting colder and colder for the past 2 months.
She was in previous marriage for 6 years (married very young). Her parents are pastors and she was always on a tight leash.
She says I didn't care about her and there's no passion in our relationship anymore. She wants freedom and she wants to experience life. She says she slept with other men for almost half a year (not single one) cause our sex is boring and there's no fire - so she went to look for it somewhere else.
My initial reaction was to pull her to me as hard as I could - I begged, I cried. and it only pulled her further away from me. A week ago we almost separated - I told her I want to make it work no matter what, but it requires 2 people to work on the marriage. I've changed a lot in me in the past month and she admits she sees the changes but she doesn't want to be with me anymore. She doesn't feel connected and there's only a paper we signed between us. I told her I forgive her because in part - I understand her feelings. and I almost packed my bags. Then she said she will try to get close to me again - but she isn't sure if she's still able to.
So I'm GALing for the last 4 days. Started going to gym, changed the diet, picked up photography again. I'm trying to be happy with even the smallest things.
We're living in the same house, talking, smiling, sleeping in one bed. We walk the dog together, she puts her feet on my lap when we're on the couch watching tv.
There's no sex and no physical connection at all. I'm not trying to pull her to me even it's so hard not to do it. She talks about her work and experiences she had during the day and I listen to her very closely and provide advice and support when it's needed. I don't try to hug/kiss her. I don't call, sms, e-mail during the day.
I must admit - I'm a bit lost. I understand mistakes I've made - I'm working to become a better man as I'm fully aware that at some point I got lost. I'm rediscovering myself again.
At the same time friends are saying 'if she doesn't love you - it won't work'.
You have found a great resource in this website. There are many people here who can help you and who will provide support.
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I must admit - I'm a bit lost. I understand mistakes I've made - I'm working to become a better man as I'm fully aware that at some point I got lost. I'm rediscovering myself again.
At the same time friends are saying 'if she doesn't love you - it won't work'.
Can I still save it?
Yes, it is still possible to save the M. But, I won't lie to you, it will not be easy and it will take some time, possibly a long time.
Have you read DB or DR yet? If not, get one or both of those books, read them, and live them. Sounds like you have by your statement about GAL'ing.
As far as listening to your firneds, understand that your friends want you to stop hurting as soon as possible. So, while their intentions are in the right place, they may not be providing you good guidance. My favorite saying on taking "advice" from friends is "Don't confuse support with advice." Friends provide support.Only you know your M.
Was your W having a PA while you two were married? Is that still going on? It wasn't clear to me from your post.
Thanks for pointing out codependency - I didn't know such thing existed.
i'm not at war with myself anymore. I was. I know i'm not perfectly healthy. I'm hurt, I'm wounded. I need to find a way to heal myself. It won't be an easy process.
At the same time I know I've made mistakes in our relationship - I guess everyone does. She's aware of the fact I recognize them - and she recognizes the mistakes she's made. She's not sure if we can make it work again - she's afraid that when another bump on the road comes - I won't be able to cope with it.
But I guess to make it work again - I'll need to heal myself 1st. Never looked at it from that angle.
Yes, I'd suggest a good IC that has a specialty in co-dependency. Once you figure YOU out, you can determine if you still want her, and how to then best proceed. But right now, I'm concerned that after someone would treat you this way, you're sitting here trying to "woo" her, and what that says about your own self-esteem.
Hello and welcome to our community here on the DB board.
I almost walked away from the man who had been my H for many, many years. Although I never actually left him, I remained the same as a WAW in my heart. It took a long time for me to get better. My H and I are doing fine now. I hope that I can help you to get better also.
I may be able to tell you a little bit about your W and how she felt. Can you tell me if she slept with many men before she met you? You said she had been M for six years, but I was not sure about how long it had been between her last R and when she met you.....or before the two of you were M. May, I also ask you if the two of you had sex right away after meeting? I realize that is a very personal question, but I have a special reason for asking. It will help me to understand your W much better if you can answer these questions.
I want you to know that I agree about you needing to heal yourself. However, I think you should be determine to heal whether you remain with your W or leave. The way you feel about yourself will determine your happiness for the rest of your life. I have studied about this subject and more importantly, I have "lived" a lot of it. High self-esteem is essential for a good M. Did you know that? So, not only will you help yourself, but you will help the MR by healing over your low self-esteem, lack of self-respect, and co-dependency issues. If you can find a good counselor to give you guidance, that would be very helpful in speeding the process up. However, if you can't, then there are some places on the Internet that have free information. Just be careful, b/c there are some 'strange' ideas out there. Hopefully, you would know in your heart if things did not sound "right" to you. For an example, some counselors say to leave the M and go find your happiness on your own. They are not trying to help with the MR; they are trying to give you a "quick fix" and it is not a good answer.
The way the two of you met is not what I think of as being the "traditional" way, but I realize that in our modern times it is popular. Some people click when they met in person, and some do not. So, it was good that the two of you liked each other right away. That means that there was attraction between the two of you, right? Did you ever feel that she wanted to M you for "any" other reason other than the fact she was very much in love with you? Was there any motivation for you M her other than being in love? BTW, does she have any children? How long has it been since she was divorced from her first H?
Both of you faced a great deal of stress after M. I think the top most stressful things to a MR is bad health, in-law interference, bad finances, and let's not forget....unfaithfulness. I'm sure I'm leaving something important out, but those are what immediately came to my mind. I have had all of it. However, I was the one who was the unfaithful person in my M. I had an EA. There is more than one way to be unfaithful to your S.
You were a bad husband in many ways. You did not say if you were ever physically abusive or not. You were mentally abusive. Maybe you were verbally abusive, also? I would not have stayed with you two days! I was not raised....nor am I the type of woman....who would EVER, EVER take that from a man! You could have M the a "bad" kind of woman and then you would have been hunting your tally-wacker on the side of the road in the dark some night! Then not only would your "attitude" have changed, but your "voice", as well. Just trying to let you know that all women do not feel they have to have a man in order to have a life. Neither do YOU have to have a woman in order to have a life, and neither should either man or woman treat the other one as if they are lower than dirt! First, you must respect yourself, then you must respect your spouse and treat her with the highest of all the respect of any other human on earth. She is the other half of "you".
I have to leave for a bit, but will get back to you later. Don't do ANYTHING before I get back! (lol)
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
As far as I can tell - she didn't sleep with many men before she met me. She was separated for a year with her husband - they were still living in the same house, different rooms. As I've mentioned earlier - we met online. We spent 3-4 hours a day seeing each other and talking all the time about ourselves.... we clicked. we were genuinly happy. After 3 months she came to Poland (from Canada). Yes - we had sex right away - we were so starved to touch and feel each other after 3 months of just seeing and talking. I can tell you - we were already deeply in love. She came to Poland 06.2008, I came to Canada for a month 08.2008. Moved permanently 12.2008.
There were no other reasons for the marriage. I proposed, she accepted me. We went to Mexico for our honeymoon. She doesn't have any children. There was 1 year of separation and 6 months from her 1st divorce.
I realize now that I was a bad husband - I lost myself and we were unable to communicate properly. I started to freak out when money I had started to run out (11.2008). I should have supported her and I didn't. I was never physically or verbally abusive. Mentally for sure. I gave her 1,5 months of insecure hell. I have the full picture of the things I've done wrong now. I've been going over them over and over again.
One of the causes of the whole thing may be the way that she was raised as well. Her parents are both pastors. Up to some point they were very restrictive - no friends, no 'imporper movies', no outings. She wed a guy that was 'proper' for her when she was 18. She had to fight for everything and she learned that if she decides to do things her way - she can do them no matter what others say. I have to admit - her parents are very religious, I wouldn't call them flaky but according to her - they changed and got more 'laid back' since her divorce. I have very good relationship with them - it's so natural for me to call them mom/dad.
The other problem may be in me - my mother died in a car accident when I was 5... and I was brought up by stepmother for whom the younger sister (her child) was always the more important one. We fought alot, but I have to say that she raised me as good as she was able to. I'm not a jerk - I see myself as an intelligent, educated person with hobbies and goals in life. My parents got divorced when I was 18. I moved out and had to do everything on my own. I made it - finished technical university, was able to provide for myself, got a good job and advanced in it quite easily. I also was in a relationship which lasted 5 years (1 year before I met my wife). I even proposed and got accepted but the whole thing fel apart all of a sudden. She found someone else and cheated on me. I was a very hard time for me but I've managed to get it all together again. I was basically healed when I've met my W.
But I have to admit - I see the need to heal myself. that's the only way I can save the real Me.
Okay, just read your reply. It sounded a tiny bit more spunky than the first one. Maybe I said something to stir that up.....and if so, then that's good. You need to stand up for yourself, whether it is a woman or another man.....or a "group" of people.
I did not want to stop my last post at the place I did b/c I did not want to give you the impression I was trying to be a smart a$$ and "sounding off" as a tough female who hated men. Nothing like that! I was about to make a big point (I'm sure ) when I was interrupted and suddenly had to leave. So, I will try to start again and if I say things that you don't appreciate, at first.....I hope you will stick with this and give this a chance, and see what everyone has to say. There are a lot of people here, and most of us have pretty strong opinions. Whatever you do....don't quit. Keep coming back and reading and posting, okay?
I'm glad you explained a little more about yourself and the stitch.
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I see myself as an intelligent, educated person with hobbies and goals in life.
This is good and sounds like a person with a healthy self-esteem. So, maybe I don't have to say all I had originally thought to say... BTW, I see myself as one who tries to have a sense of humor and hope you can see it at times, too. For an example when I told you not to do ANYTHING before I got back to you. I did not mean that seriously nor did I mean to sound arrogant......but rather, it was my sense of humor (such as it is :/). Coming from different countries or cultures can make communication challenging. Unless a person tells where they are from, then nobody knows. So....it often helps to know. I am from the USA. You probably could tell, right?
So.....maybe you did truly "lose yourself" for a time, like you said. But do you suddenly feel that you have found yourself since Puppy Dog Tails spoke to you, suggesting you were co-dependent? I'm only wondering b/c of the way you sounded "before" and the way you replied to "my" post. Maybe it is b/c of what I said? How do you feel when a woman talks rather tough to you? I was wondering if there was a time in your life when you had been dealt with harshly by a woman. You spoke of your step-mom and how she favored her own child. I would imagine that was very hard to grow up in that environment. I saw my niece have to do the same thing and it was very sad.
You told us how you talked down to your W and how she could do nothing the right way. How has your "W" talked to you? How did she treat you after she worked all day and went to classes...and then came home to see that you had done nothing but play computer games? (Bet she didn't respect you much, did she?) Did she bite her tongue and not say anything when you talked "down" and critisized her, or did she stand up to you and "get in your face" about how you acted? Did she just sit back and take whatever you dished out without fighting back?
Have you ever thought that she was paying you back for hurting her and disappointing her as a H? You said it was b/c she was not happy with the sex in the M, but why do you think that changed from how great it was before the two of you M?
I realize I am asking many personal questions. Almost everything we discuss here on the board is personal. That is the best way I know to find a lot of routes to the issues here in this stitch. You see, most people will look at this at face value and say....."Yeah, another cheating wife! She was unfaithful to that poor LBH and he has every right to kick her to the streets and walk away!" But I think that there is "usually" more to the story than meets the eye, when a newcomer begins here on the board. Most of us have more complicated lives than it appears when we send out our first post. So, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or sound ugly in asking you the things that I am. I was not trying to be ugly in my first post, but I did want you to know that I am not the "mousy" kind of gal who would take bad treatment off of a man. (Just thought you may want to know that up front.) It is my opinion that "some" men treat their W's poorly simply b/c they can get away with it. Hope you were not that way. You said you were a "bastard". I am tempted to agree with you.....HOWEVER....I have a long way to go before I've made up my mind about your W and exactly what to make of her in all of this. Am I making "more" out of the story than truly is? Is your stitch more complicated than you've had time to tell?
Just wanted you to know that I "do" care very much or I would not be here spending my evening with you on this board. I do have a life besides the DB board.....however, this has been a big part of my life the past couple of years! It's b/c of what the people here did for me that I am here for you. DB works! You may not always hear exactly what you desire when you come, but you will have support. That is very important.
So, I hope you will reply soon.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You need to stand up for yourself, whether it is a woman or another man.....or a "group" of people. 
) when I was interrupted and suddenly had to leave. So, I will try to start again and if I say things that you don't appreciate, at first.....I hope you will stick with this and give this a chance, and see what everyone has to say. There are a lot of people here, and most of us have pretty strong opinions. Whatever you do....don't quit. Keep coming back and reading and posting, okay?
BTW, I see