Separated and doing well...

[Thinker]

..and often - almost always - that anger reveals something to me that I can work on in myself...

True, True....

But D@mn hard to do...

It's that chain that is so hard to break:

- I believe something is wrong (which it may or may not be - but at that point I believe it is)

-- and I take it personally (which I probably should not, because it is probably not truly about me)

---and then I have an emotional response to it (which is probably an overreaction on my part due to some long ago hurt)

So you have to get past the emotions and think:
- Is this thing which has been done really wrong?
--Is it really about me? Why am I taking it personally?
---Why does it feel so bad? Am I really reacting to this thing at this time? or am I reacting to something else? something unrelated?

I find I can't do this when I am angry. I can only go through these thoughts later.

really hard!!

[Coach]

So you have to get past the emotions and think:- Is this thing which has been done really wrong?
--Is it really about me? Why am I taking it personally?
---Why does it feel so bad? Am I really reacting to this thing at this time? or am I reacting to something else? something unrelated?

I find I can't do this when I am angry. I can only go through these thoughts later.

So it's key to skip the emotional step and go to thinking. Self-awareness of what triggers your emotions then dispute them for the current sitch. I like your list Thinker.

[healthydad]

Alex,

Surely such anger could be appropriate, too; it need not always, or even more times than not, reveal an implicit "fault" (something for which you must do work) in you?

I think feeling the initial anger is sometimes very normal and appropriate - but, at least for me, it's what I do with that anger that matters most. I find that when I feel anger, it's a lot better for me to step away - feel it, let it run its course, and then see what remains. Acting/saying/doing anything while feeling anger just about always takes me in directions I don't want to go. For instance, and this is unrelated. Last Christmas, I was driving through a parking lot filled with people - I was just about to pull into a lane, when a guy zipped in front of me going far too fast for a parking lot - I honked - at which point he slammed on his breaks (since he was clearly in such a hurry) - got out of his car and started coming toward me with his hands balled up in fists.

I rolled down my window, took out my cell phone and took a picture of him and his car. And said, "you can do whatever you want to do." I didn't give him any anger back in return for his anger - so, while he still had a few choice words for me and an uninspired gesture, he got back in his car and drove away. My point being that, though I was annoyed and offended with his reckless/selfish driving - and saw it as a form of disrespect for others - I set aside the anger as soon as he stepped out of his car, instinctively knowing that any anger on my part would escalate things - and deviate from how I truly felt...which was, oddly enough, kind of sad that people drive that way and risk the lives of others.

I didn't always apply or maintain this same attitude with B. When she would get angry (which, was very often), I would respond to it, react, speak to it - all from my own irritated state of being - and things would get out of hand quickly. Now, when she's angry, and behaves as she did just the other day - insulting me in front of my S2 - I don't feel anger toward her - which I'm happy about - but I do still get other feelings that bubble up - like disgust and disappointment - which don't feel emotionally charged in me - rather those emotions tend to feel calm and a lot clearer. Still, no matter how I feel, whenever I get a vituperative word from her or an email full of reinvented reality (several of those lately), I still take my time to respond...since, even when I don't think there is an emotional response in me, there tends to be just enough to cloud my thinking.

And when it does point back to you, can you discern a pattern or typical place that it takes you, such that you don't repeat the dance that points back to you?

I don't know if there is a pattern...it's more like realizing that when the anger comes up, it's telling me something. The major tell in my life, however, isn't anger, but fear. When I fear something - when I feel the knots in my heart and mind in response to a situation - I know for certain that there's something I have to address...and then I allow whatever emotions I have to come out - and once I feel a bit more settled, I tend to see things about myself that I hadn't before.

B, as I imagine is true for most spouses, knows which buttons to push, knows what things about my past worry me in my present - and she's been very good at using them against me. While attached and entangled (I tend to prefer the word entangled, since I see an unhealthy marriage more as a series of unmanaged/able knots than just common points of attachment), it was very easy for her to use myself against me - and since I was not removed enough, myself enough, the emotions often seemed far more intense - but that's not just because she knew me - it's also because, as she started going through this crisis - as she started to fall apart inside - her own ambiguities and confusion made her spin around a lot - and things would come out of her head that made no sense - but rather than recognizing that, and letting it go, I would hear her words and take them in, and let them wound me...and I would then respond to those wounds like any threatened beast - I would snip and snap and try to protect myself....all the while forgetting that what she said and did had nothing to do with me...yes, it affected me, and her words disregarded our life/history together - but the accusations and the anger, were hers to deal with...not mine...but when I let my emotions guide my reactions to her - I would get caught up in her drama - and spin into my own netherworld.

-Carlos.

[healthydad]

And I think it's important to feel what we have to feel - but not act on the emotions that pass through us...if it's anger, feel the anger - allow it to run its course - just as with sadness, fear, joy...For me, there's a certain kind of hope that goes into allowing emotions to do what they have to do, so that once they're settled, I can see things a bit more clearly - not unlike staring into the ionized landscape after a rainstorm.

-c.

[JKL2009]

Being more self-ware of what you are really feeling is spot on. I know I used to get angry but I didn't acknowledge it, and then it got the best of me. Now, if I feel it coming, I see it and let it do its thing with me in control, and it goes away and I can move on with no harm.

[Thinker]

Being more self-ware of what you are really feeling is spot on. I know I used to get angry but I didn't acknowledge it, and then it got the best of me. Now, if I feel it coming, I see it and let it do its thing with me in control, and it goes away and I can move on with no harm.

Bingo, same with sadness and fear.

Believe it or not, I have almost started to look forward to feeling these things - kind of search for them because I like the learning part.

I seem to manage sadness and fear better than anger however - still room for improvement there.

[AlexEN]

I seem to manage sadness and fear better than anger however - still room for improvement there.

Just a thought, because I agree with you on this point, but maybe it's because the stakes are so much higher with anger than with sadness or fear in the sense that it is outwardly directed and has the potential to do far more harm than the others (as well as to others!), thus, in a way, feeding on itself. Instinctively, perhaps, because we know it has the potential to do more damage, we may try that much harder to "fight it off", rather than letting it run its course as JKL and Carlos have written about above.

[healthydad]

I think you're very right about that, Alex...though eventually, as we get less entangled with the other...the anger starts to dissipate all on its own as well...at least that's been my experience. Without B in my life I don't have any anger whatsoever - it's really kind of remarkable to me...Of course, she'll try to provoke me every now and then - as she did last week with her insults (though she's followed up the insults with the most bizarre of emails of late...which I'll get to in a moment).

Still, as much as I think anger has to potential to do more harm - at least in the short term - fear can do a lot of harm (perhaps even more?) in the long term. For me, fighting my fears - or resisting them - made matters worse...every single time. Whereas once I started to accept things - including my current work situation - I've started to find more clarity - and more ways to work toward the right solutions. Facing fear, taking it in, and overcoming it can be much, much harder than accepting anger and allowing it to run its course - without being driven by it.

So...as for the bizarre stuff...last night B send me an email completely ignoring her behavior from the other day (the insults in front of S2) - and claiming that from her POV it was different...she followed that up by asking me again if my S12 would like to travel with her to visit her family - and then, this is what really perplexed me, she responded to my desire to have my S2 spend nights with me by suggesting that my S12 should spend nights at her place...forgive me for a moment as I say, WTF?!? I suppose she simply has no idea that my S12 does not have many good memories of his time spent with her - and of course she does not know how he feels about her parents - and that her father makes him very uncomfortable (with his volatile temper and his tendency to say f*ck around him).

Her note also had a decent share of fishing for info about any changes in my life - using the language of 'unless something has changed in your life'....amazing...still...there was only one question asked in her email - so that's all I responded to - letting her know that, no, my S12 would not be traveling with her. The best thing about not feeling entangled anymore is that I don't try to figure out why she says what she says or how she might be trying to manipulate me - I just let her be, and go on with my life - enjoying my time with my boys and finding a lot of happiness in a new relationship.

-Carlos.

[Purple]

I mean really, from what I know, she doesn't actually click with S12 and besides, he's not her son.

I think she is trying to get you to see from her point of view that it will be really hard to let A spend the night with you.

What if you don't actually commit to S spending time with her, but don't flat out say no?

How much time does S spend with his own mum and how often?

[Purple]

I have issues with anger. I rarely get really angry when something happens. I'm all understanding and 'not wanting to rock the boat' - then later on as I reflect I get angry at myself for not standing up for myself. Then I get resentful....then I stew....not nice. Sometimes I wish I could blow my top and then healthily resolve and reconcile the problem.