Running out of gas

[mountain_west]

MLC

[Jimbo]

Have you read "MLC for Dummies", and the other MLC resources here on the board?

[mountain_west]

I've read most of the MLC resources. I stopped b/c I get so frustrated reading them. They're in a fog ... lost ... can't seem to find their way .... I get it. I really do. I feel for her. The frustrating part is the advice for those of us left behind. There's nothing you can do for them other than sit back and settle in for a long ride while they destroy the various relationships around them and hit bottom. They may hit bottom. They may not.

[Jimbo]

I've read most of the MLC resources. I stopped b/c I get so frustrated reading them. They're in a fog ... lost ... can't seem to find their way .... I get it. I really do. I feel for her. The frustrating part is the advice for those of us left behind. There's nothing you can do for them other than sit back and settle in for a long ride while they destroy the various relationships around them and hit bottom. They may hit bottom. They may not.

MW- I do know the frustration you're feeling. The fact that there's nothing we can do to help them with what they're going through is an unfortunate facet of all of this. It sucks. No doubt about it.

I'm not so sure that I agree with your last statement, though. I think that every MLCer has an unconscious list of "things that will make me happy". They go down this list, checking off each item as they go along......

"If I could only move out, then I'd be happy....."

"If I could only get a new boyfriend..."

"If I could only get a D....."

"If I could only get/do/have....."

And then comes the day when they reach the bottom of the list. They've done it all, and there are no more items to check off of the list.

And they're STILL not happy.

That's when they hit bottom. (And I believe that THEY ALL DO, sooner or later.)

Then they look in the last place they have left- the only place they haven't looked.

Inside themselves.

And that's when they begin to rebuild themselves, and start to come back.

You say that you've read most of the resources, so you already have a basis to build on. You know that it takes, on average, anywhere between 2-15 years for them to come back. And that about 85% of them do come back. And the reason that the remaining 15% don't come back is predominantly because of the way the LBS handled the situation when they left.

So MW, knowing what you know, are you willing to take the journey?

My friend Mach1 has a saying he likes to use- "This is a 2-for-1 sale". Your W is "working on herself". (I know, it's a warped, bass-ackward, confused, muddling through sort of way that she is working on herself, but it IS her journey.) You say to yourself, "If only she would stop and look at what is happening! If only she would look at HERSELF and SEE, then she'd break out of this!"

What is good enough for her is good enough for you, yes? Will you be a hypocrite and stand by, waiting for her to change? Or will you take the lead in making changes in yourself, and allow yourself to be the exemplar in this sitch? Will you make the changes that you KNOW that YOU need to make to be a better man, for you?

You posited the same question earlier in your thread that I had when I first started. "How will she see my changes if she's not around"? I grappled with the same question. And then I realized that the changes were not for my W- they were for ME. To make ME into the best ME I can be. And this WILL show through to her, sooner or later, in the aggregate. It is a slow process, but it will happen.

I can't possibly communicate everything that I have learned from my journey, or describe to you the ways in which I have grown since I decided to stand for my R with my W in this one post. But I can tell you that YOU will grow. And maybe....just maybe....your W will want to be a part of those changes.

MW, I don't have to tell you that MLC is a whole different ballgame from WAS, with its own crazy rules that only people who are going through it (or have gone through it) can identify with. That being said, have you considered posting your thread(s) in the MLC section of the board? There is a strong, supportive community over there that can help you stand, if that is what you truly want to do.....

[mountain_west]

I've been debating going over to the MLC boards. I have issues with her and the whole infidelity thing, too. honestly, it was a pretty big deal just to get myself to post here.

She's not a big one for dealing with herself. Her typical response is to cut bait, move away and completely start over, which she hasn't done to this point. She threatens divorce but doesn't act on it. Looking back I can see the beginnings of the MLC, but she said absolutely nothing about it. That's another post.

I'm kinda all over the place today so pardon the disjointed ramblings. Her leaving forced all kinds of changes for me. When she left, she took away more than just us. My career ... is now more or less over, or at least on indefinite hold. I know she feels guilty about that and that guilt is much much bigger than just things with us. I'm not sure what to do with that either. Just entertaining myself while I sort it out for myself. My impending move has me all tweaked out today. Its not in stone yet, but ... grrrrr.

I was reading one of your earlier posts. I don't know if you said it or if someone said it to you, but the gist was "the MLCer wants to know that you are exactly where they left you." Why do you think that is?

[Jimbo]

I've been debating going over to the MLC boards. I have issues with her and the whole infidelity thing, too. honestly, it was a pretty big deal just to get myself to post here.

I'm glad you decided to post. The infidelity is a symptom, not the cause. Once you are able to educate yourself in MLC even more, I think you will be able to recognize that in your heart, as well as draw other inferences and conclusions that can help you "heal and deal". (or, at least, that is how it's working for me.)

She's not a big one for dealing with herself. Her typical response is to cut bait, move away and completely start over, which she hasn't done to this point. She threatens divorce but doesn't act on it. Looking back I can see the beginnings of the MLC, but she said absolutely nothing about it. That's another post.

My attitude about MLC - it's a lot like snow: each snowflake is unique in and of itself, but in the aggregate, it's all cold and white. Some commonalities exist despite the fact that every MLC is different. My W tends to "cut bait" easily also- she has actually initiated our D, moved 45 minutes down the road and 2 miles away from the OP, taken all of her possessions, moved into an apartment and bought new furniture....yet is still interested in what I am doing on Sundays, because I dodged this question every time she brought it up. She, like your W, also said nothing about anything wrong in the beginning.

I'm kinda all over the place today so pardon the disjointed ramblings. Her leaving forced all kinds of changes for me. When she left, she took away more than just us. My career ... is now more or less over, or at least on indefinite hold. I know she feels guilty about that and that guilt is much much bigger than just things with us. I'm not sure what to do with that either. Just entertaining myself while I sort it out for myself. My impending move has me all tweaked out today. Its not in stone yet, but ... grrrrr.

Not sure what you mean here by you not being sure what to do with her guilt, MW. What is there to do with it?

I was reading one of your earlier posts. I don't know if you said it or if someone said it to you, but the gist was "the MLCer wants to know that you are exactly where they left you." Why do you think that is?

My take on that is that, deep down, they still have feelings for us. Somewhere in the midst of all this twisted haze, they still have designs on coming back....sometime. (Like everything else) they don't know when, just not now. To give you an example, earlier on in all of this, I had suggested to my W that I might move to Hawaii if we ever got a D. While she didn't SAY anything to this remark, I could tell from my Ws reaction that that was NOT in her gameplan, and she did not like that prospect at all!

Another example- back when I was still spying on her, I noticed, even after many months of being on her own, that she had purchased some chairs online. Not very telling in and of itself, until I share with you that these chairs were of a very unique bow armed style that is very hard to describe and equally hard to find- and just happens to match the color and style of the hard to find furniture in our house. Could it be that she just really misses the style of furniture that she left behind in our home? Possibly, but she never seemed all that crazy about the style when we got it in the first place. I think she was trying to match "her" furniture to what we have at home, so that when she moves back- it will match.

I also think that "the MLCer wants to know that you are exactly where they left you" also has something to do with what they are going through. They feel they have no control over anything in their lives- including themselves. So they try to control the people around them in a futile bid to have some sort of control and order over their own lives.

For me, understanding this aspect of it helps me to have more compassion for what my W is going through, and actually makes it easier for me to continue to stand.

[mountain_west]

Generally rough day. I feel like filing myself.

[Jimbo]

Generally rough day. I feel like filing myself.

...like filing yourself under "D", for "Dead @$$ tired",
or "E" for "Emotionally Spent"?

What's going on?

[mountain_west]

Just a bad day. Normally, I'm fairly balanced but lately i'm just really, really tired. There are just a lot of things going on all at once. Work has some big changes coming, and yesterday things began to get rolling. Bad things on the near horizon. It seems like limbo is not confined to relationships and that doesn't help. Someone at work commented on the pictures of my dogs, that I don't have anymore. And as an added bonus, I woke up at 3 am with this horrific dream about Her.

Not sure what you mean here by you not being sure what to do with her guilt, MW. What is there to do with it?

To give some insight into this ... I was in the middle of a fairly long job search when she decided to walk out. I was the finalist for several pastoral positions and they just didn't pan out. So I ended up taking this other job (WAY out of my chosen field) as a way to keep getting paid while the search went on. About a month after I took the job, she left. With a separation my job search is on indefinite hold. So career-wise, I'm kinda stuck in limbo until this gets resolved. Without getting into all the the theological issues, if we head down the D road, it complicates the job search even further. She's told me that she carries much guilt over the fact that her decision does more than just affect our marital status.

[Jimbo]

Just a bad day. Normally, I'm fairly balanced but lately i'm just really, really tired. There are just a lot of things going on all at once. Work has some big changes coming, and yesterday things began to get rolling. Bad things on the near horizon. It seems like limbo is not confined to relationships and that doesn't help. Someone at work commented on the pictures of my dogs, that I don't have anymore. And as an added bonus, I woke up at 3 am with this horrific dream about Her.

It seems as if the Universe has to throw everything into a shambles first in order to be able to rebuild our lives on a more solid footing. I look at it much like first razing a building to build a better foundation, and that way we will be able to have a more stable life. New wine in new wineskins, so to speak. Our Ws are going through much the same process, but they are even more confused and stressed out than we are, believe it or not.

I have gone, and am going, through the same things. First the dreams, and now the life changes. Everything in its season.

These things, too, shall pass, my friend. And we will be better for them.

To give some insight into this ... I was in the middle of a fairly long job search when she decided to walk out. I was the finalist for several pastoral positions and they just didn't pan out. So I ended up taking this other job (WAY out of my chosen field) as a way to keep getting paid while the search went on. About a month after I took the job, she left. With a separation my job search is on indefinite hold. So career-wise, I'm kinda stuck in limbo until this gets resolved. Without getting into all the the theological issues, if we head down the D road, it complicates the job search even further. She's told me that she carries much guilt over the fact that her decision does more than just affect our marital status.

I'm really sorry to hear that. Believe it or not, I can identify with your dilemma here, MW. I have a friend who felt the calling to get his DD and enter the ministry. He was actually in line for a scholarship at Harvard Divinity, and a placement directly after graduation. He seemed set. But then they saw his marital history- two Ds. It didn't make a difference to them at first, but then they seemed to have a change of heart. His first one, his wife just didn't seem ready to settle down- she wound up cheating on him and leaving. The second one, (unbeknownst to him at the time) went through an MLC. She tried to come back several years later after the D, but, he decided not to take her back because "she's not all there". They are still friends, and talk with each other on Facebook. He has told me that he is especially interested to know how my efforts with my W turn out. I have tried to educate him about MLC, and I think maybe that I have convinced him that this is what his 2nd W went through also, and in the back of his mind he is holding out hope that it IS possible to reconcile on the other side. I am wondering if I am his "test case".

It is a shame that the respective churches can't understand that, just because you've had a D, it has nothing to do with your devotion to God.

There's nothing you can do about your Ws guilt, MW. This is all her- she will have to confront the consequences of her own actions. I would say to let her.