Sandi is right. She wants to keep you on the hook to see if the other relationship works out- it's either that or she wants to be "friends". When she comes out of the fog you'll know it- she'd be repentant and apologetic and devastated that she's done this to you.
She told her mom, who she thought wouldn't tell anyone. Her mom has told her sisters. Occassionally she is sorry for hurting me, but not sorry for what she is doing.
My take on these sorts of things is to neither ENcourage nor DIScourage family (or friends) from doing what they want to do, and what feels genuine to THEM.
My D-then-18 wanted to call my wife's OM, and tell her what she thought of him. I told her I would neither give her his number, nor forbid her. Same thing with what she wanted to tell her mother.
Consequences. Your position should be "I have decided that I will no longer lie to cover up your affair."
My WAW is still adamant about the M being over. There are no signs of affection or anything. Lately she has been talking down to me, and when I told her I didn't want to be treated that way, she said she was doing that to make sure I knew that things were not getting better, that even though we live together, there was no chance of us reconciling. I am trying to back away and back away, but I keep backing into a wall. We have young kids, it is very difficult to detach, we have to act together as parents. She has seen the changes I have made, and is happy I made them because it will be good for me in the future with somebody else. She is so cold when she talks about us. Most people here who have WAWs, from what I read, at least have some little bits of hope. Mine is done with the marriage. Her IC, her sister and her closest girlfriend are all telling her to get out of the M if she isn't happy. How can I fight this? I am detaching and GALing, and she is pushing me out, happy I am GALing so I can be happy without her. I hope I didn't just hijack this thread. I started writing and I couldn't stop.
Orich, did you think your W was "not adamant" about the M being over when you found out she was having an A? That is usually a pretty good clue, don't you think?
"Most" women who are having a PA with with OM will not be affectionate with their H's. However, I have heard of a few that can do it. But, are you saying you want her ML or be lovie-dovie with you, when knowing she's in an A?
Yes, she is treating you like cr@p so you will wake-up and get the message, but I don't think you have....yet! She wants out of this M and you are pouting b/c she won't give you affection or show respect! What is it going to take? All WAW's treat their H's badly b/c they do not want the H to think there is any hopes in reconciling. I know just how little it takes for a man to get his hopes up that his W is "coming around". It is unbelievable what LBS's put up with before they face the truth. You need to see this for what's she's trying to put in your face. That being, she wants out.....she doesn't want to be M to you any longer. She wants you to forget about any thoughts/hopes for a future with her. Nothing matters to her but her freedom. Will you please get that? Don't use the kids, M vows, wedding rings, memories, family, religion, or finances....the way so many LBH's do.....b/c none of it matters to your WAW, anymore.
You said you are trying to back away. How are you backing away? This is not a sarcastic question. I am in earnest. How?
In what ways have you changed? You should be able to list the ways in which you've made changes.
Of course she is "cold" when talking about the two of you. What do you expect? I can tell by your post that you won't see what she's trying to tell you. I can understand her frustration as a WAW.
Quote:
Most people here who have WAWs, from what I read, at least have some little bits of hope
In what way are you refering to people have a bit of hope? What do they have that you don't?
You said you were detaching "and" GAL. Tell us the ways you are GAL. What are you doing? If she is "still" having to push you out, then you are not detaching! She cannot "push away" what is not there!
As for her sisters and friends and how you fight their opinions or influence about her getting out of the M to be happy.......there will always be somebody out in the world who has the opposite opinion of you. I know it is hard when family & friends are not in your corner. You are probably thinking if only they supported you that they could convince your W to stay in the M. Wrong! They would not influence her at this stage of the process. In most cases, I think, if changes come about.....it is from a long process and takes a long time.
She doesn't respect you and you tell her you don't like for her to treat you that way. It is obvious that you do not know how to get respect from a woman. I can tell you that it is not by asking or pleading or trying to get her to feel sorry for you, or telling her you don't "like" to be treated the way she's doing. That makes you appear to be very weak and mousey. She wants you to find your b@lls and start acting like a man. Being a man who demands respect does NOT include showing one single act of violence. That is not being a man, IMH. It does not require screaming/yelling at the top of your lungs. It may, however, require using a voice of authority! If you don't know the difference, then you need to talk to some man who "is" in good control over a large group of people, and get him to teach you. Do you think you could do speak in a voice of "authority"? B/c it ain't by saying you don't "want to be treated that way". You tell her YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE DISRESPECTED BY HER TALKING DOWN TO YOU! PERIOD!! If she can't show you respect, like a man should be respected in his own home, then she needs to get out.....IMHO. That is, if you are acting like a man she can respect. As I've said before, a man has to "earn" respect from his W, but if he "has".....then he should demand that in his own home. He should be shown respect from his W and his children. How do you think those kids are going to treat daddy when they see mom treating him like dirt? Exactly! Little boys grow up to be disrespected like they saw their dad, and little girls grow up to disrespect men like they watched their mom doing.
I know this is hard! Every LBH who comes to this board almost says the very same thing. He talks about how much he loves his W and how hard it is to detach. He doesn't understand why she is so "cold", etc., etc., etc. So, it's not like you are the only man this has happened to! You need to listen to the men who have been around a long time and are trying to tell you what to do. If you won't listen, then you are in for a very big heartache. I'm not saying it would keep you from getting a D, but it might save your self-respect, and you would have the courage to make a positive future for you and your kids.
Talk to you later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This is exactly what she told me guy, you better listen. My sitch is very similar to yours including the way my W was acting towards me.
I totally understand what she means by the "voice" of respect. I came off as whiny before to her, but then I told her just last week that while she may not love me, she will respect me. I didn't say it in anger, just a position of power. I loved it and it made her shut her yap.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
First of all, she hasn't been affectionate or physical with me for some time before this OM even showed up on the scene. I know exactly when she started contact with him and it was tword the end of our MC. Before that, she made very little effort in trying to fix the M. WHile in MC, the counsellor felt that she has unresolved issues due to her mother and sister in law dying in the same month, and possibly some other childhood issues all leading up to her suffering from depression without her knowing it. He even suggested she get a physical from her MD. She also has been for about a year having major problems with her monthly cycle including strong nightmares and major mood swings. Both her MD and OBGYN suggested anti-depressants (Lexipro) She took them for a week, then took herself off. At this time I was approaching this whole mess as though she were sick, and needed to get better. So, I stood by her while she was in my mind sick. She has major money issues since we claimed bankruptcy. The OM came into the picture originally to offer her a job as he is about to direct a major motion picture (they have known each other since HS). All through this she has been acting as though we were friends, it wasn't until a week or so ago she started acting nasty and cold. I was prepared to put up with the no intimacy or affection as long as I thought she was sick and trying to get help. Only within the last few days have I found out that she is in fact ignoring any advice about working through past trauma and only working on moving ahead with separation and ultimately D. So, now is when I have been more assertive. I have told her i won't be spoken to in that manner. I simply won't respond when that happens. I understand only now that I have more information that she is truly done, is not going to address past issues, and wants to move on. Fine. I did tell her under NO circumstances am I leaving the house, and I think the boys should stay in the house. Right now the only parent they see practically is me anyway, so they can't even pick up on any maltreatment or disrespect. I told her that, too. The first thing my kids ask me when I pick them up is if mommy will be home for dinner. I don't talk badly about her in front of them, I merely say I don't know. I would never EVER raise a hand to her nor scream at her. I have locked up many men for that and I think it is despicable. Should I have been more assertive all through our marriage and especially now, yes. I see where I should have been. I'm not backing down now, though. It might have taken a while for me to get that it truly is over, but I realize it now and am acting accordingly. I am not leaving the house, in fact I told her I am not leaving our bed. The kids need to stay in the house, and that is where they are staying. What she decides to do now is her problem, not mine. I am not budging. As far as DBing, I took every complaint she had about me in MC to heart, realize that I had taken her for granted, and addressed this. I have contributed way more to household chores, payed more attention to her, became more talkative, and got more active in church ministries we both volunteer at. I have made serious efforts to combat my poor short term memory by carrying around a pad and pencil. All these complaints made me take a good long look at myself and realize I might not have liked me the way I was, either. I have not backslid once on my improvements. She has even acknowledged them by saying she thinks its great, that I am a new man, and whoever I end up with will be lucky. As for GALing, I have joined a gym ( I was a serious couch potato, now I get mad when I miss a day at the gym) I go to movies with my brother, and am now beginning to hang out with friends from work. I used to race home from work before and stay home in order to be with her which she used to praise me for. Now she wants to be apart, so I find reasons to leave the house. I am scheduling doing things on nights I know she wants to go out, so now she has to either stay home or get a babysitter. My comment about others here was that it seemed to me that their WAW's had some sort of attachment still. Mine doesn't. Yeah that bums me out. I'm sorry, but I am jealous. But as I said, recent events are causing me to become more of a hardnose. I always tried to separate my job from my home life. I never wanted to treat anyone in my family like I do the many perps I lock up. Now, some of that authority that I find very easy to use is coming into play at home. I am not treating anyone badly, but I am presenting my case now, and standing fast. I said I was having a hard time detaching. My understanding of it was confusing applying it to a situation where we have kids together. Through this board is becoming more clear, and I am implementing the last effort technique accordingly. Yes, I had hoped for some back up from members of her family, but never requested it from them and never will. I do still love her very much. I can't just shut that switch off. But I am getting better at this especially after learning what I know now. And I still don't believe there has been a PA with her and this other guy. I understand that their could very well be an EA, which is just as bad, but in my heart I don't think it has ever been physical. I have my reasons for that belief. She doesn't want a future with me in it. I get it. I have the conviction I need now, I believe. I realize I am not perfect, and I may backslide at times, but not on important stuff. My kids already see me in a good light, I believe, and they won't see anything else.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
Wow, major fallout from her. Pretty sure that this one is for sure going to push W out of the house.. Maybe that is what needs to happen at this point though.
