C - I dont know what to say. Replying to you is starting to feel like it did when replying to Kevin in Dallas.
We are telling you what you need to do and yet you THINK your way is better.
Why cant you get that your way is NOT WORKING. It hasnt worked yet and WONT work in the future.
DB principle number one is do what works. If it doesnt then try something else.
She is going to stay in "cakeeating" mode until you change something.
Do you honestly think spending all this time with her and cracking her back and blah blah blah is going to get her to "see the light" and suddenly say wow you are such a nice guy C what am I doing? NO! Sorry doesnt work that way. She has to see that you ARE detached ARE moving on DONT know what you WANT. She has to feel her power over you disappear. Until then she will keep on playing with her puppy and yank his leash whenever she feels sad or lonely.
Plus you need to stop using your boys as an excuse to see her. What you are doing will help your family in the long run a lot more then trying to be a "family" now.
In the end you will do what you think is best. How has that been working for ya?
I think you are validating her actions, she left you and you hug her? You crack her back? you have dinner with her? ….wow….. she needs to know by your actions that what she has done and is doing is not ok or she will continue.
thats like (this is quote from a movie) Tina Turner saying hit me again Ike, and this time put some stink on it! how can she have any respect for you? without respect how can you have love?.
Your actions should include no physical contact what so ever, no non business communications at all. If she jokes around in a sexual way be indifferent about it.
Find a mutual place to drop off the kids, like at a relative’s house so you do not have to see her. Under no circumstances should she come over your house nor should you go to hers.
If you show her this, she will at first think you are being a jerk but once the initial shock is over she will start to question why…… She may talk to friends and say what a jerk he did this he did that …she may get a reply from the friend saying well you did leave him and you told him you did not want to be with him what did you expect etc…
Only when she starts question herself will you find improvement …real improvement in your relationship She needs to say to her self well maybe he is treating me like this because I moved out or told him I was not in love with him etc…. when she does this it will be a crossroads for her.
That is the problem that you've been having since the beginning. You can't seem to distinguish "Going Dim" with "Going Dark". Going dark means no contact period. Going dim (which is what everyone has been suggesting to you even if not using that term) is having some interaction with her but those interactions are strictly business.
Meeting for dinner before the kids' games, okay, that's fine. But it seems like every time you talk to her on the phone, what should be a 2 minute conversation at most gets dragged out into a 15 minutes or more discussion. When you call to say goodnight to the boys, hang up immediately after. Say goodnight to your W if you want, but just end it. NO CHIT CHAT!
Besides all of the chit chat has been her bitching about HER back, HER stress, HER hurt, etc. Has she ever thought about YOU? Not at all. You've turned into her girlfriend. Start acting like a man and stop enabling her. You don't have to be a d*ck about it, just tell her you're in the middle of something and that's it.
When she made the comment about the girlfriend, you should have ignored it. What are you in high school?
She's searching for reasons to dump you without really working on herself.
Let's face it. Even your kids don't want to talk to her. Stop doing the same. Stop cracking her back. All of that is caused by her anxiety that she's putting on herself.
Bottom line...has she done anything to apologize for her part of the relationship problems? No. Has she stopped "blaming" you for her "hurt". No. And before you say "but I did hurt her" that ship has long sailed. You apologized. Period. A marriage is two people who are not mind readers.
Turn off your phone if you can't handle the temptation. You can do it.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
tomato, cipa, I thought I'd warn you before the moderators swing by that they do not like people to make direct contact or give out personally identifying info. That is why many of us have gone on facebook to contact each other. They will probably delete or censor your posts to take that out and warn you.
Now CIPA, the hardest thing is not to swing up or down based on what your W says or does any given day. I don't think you can be completely dark because of the kids.
Try to keep things friendly, but aloof. Think of her as a friendly neighbor. I know she's more than that and you hurt like heck, but you have to invest in you and the boys. Your growth, your GAL, time with the boys, finding your base, your peace.
Don't give her more space in your head. Fill it yourself.
I know its easy to say, but hard to do. Hard, but not impossible. The sexual joking should be met with the deer in the headlights look.
Incidentally, no sitch is over until its over. Work on you. Give her space and time. Accept some time with her, but not all. Aloof, distant, calm, polite. Pace yourself. You are only at the start of the marathon and you sound often like you are in a sprint.
This didn't happen over night. It does and will take time to resolve if it can be. Regardless of what happens, and I know you want a certain resolution, it will not happen because you do, say, or act a certain way. Work on you, your growth, your communication skills.
Let her see and experience you. Let it be her watching you, over time. Be yourself and be better than you ever have been.
The WA's are more conflicted than we can imagine. Let them work on their own crossword puzzles. You work on you.
Got it?
Me 45, H 46, S 23, M 26, Together 30, Bomb 6-2-08, S 6-19-08; H left 12-29-08. H home 12-09, Still MLC in 2012! Me- I have my big girl panties on. Bring it.
I do "hear" all of you with respect to dropping the rope, detaching and having minimal interactions with her and fully appreciate and respect what all you have said. I especially like/understand Wifey's analogy of treating her as a friendly neighbor.
I have been trying to monitor to what's been working. Not from her words but from her actions. This week was the first week where she asked about doing dinner together (before my 7 year old's soccer game and tonite). I'm not reading more to it than it was just a logistical convienience, but this had been one of my goals, to have her ask for us to do things together as a family. I know she could have easily just met us at the soccer game and/or picked up the kids right after work (without going to dinner) like she has in the past.
Even tonite, she was wearing higher heels than normal so when she was standing, she was several inches taller. When I remarked about it, she was standing in front of me, bodies touching and then she leaned in to touch noses, with a very quick peck on the lips. Not sure if it was the pitcher of beer that we had shared during dinner, but it was still surprising.
So is this cake eating, enabling or softening or what? I don't know. Again, I'm not reading into it any more that an event.
What I have gathered, from reading other people's threads and what WAW's here had commented, she is not like most WAW's.
I have for the most part been doing the dark/dim part of not calling. I know I have been sucked into a couple of the relationship discussions over the last several days. I have noticed that we get into those and then something "happens". I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, correlation or causation, but in the most recent case, she hasn't worn a ring since. I've got to pay closer attention to avoid these relationship discussions, but feel from the input I've gotten here, I have a better arsenal now to fend off a relationship discussion attack
Personally, she may be feeling some angst about how the only job interview I have gone to so far has been over 2 hours away. I know she notices that I don't call her as she has commented about how I should/could call her, if I wanted to.
Then again, these are all things that I could just be imagining in my head, as Sandi had mentioned before, I am still blinded by love.
What's interesting, is that I feel a little more detached this week than I have in the past. I know I've had some angst this week of her not wearing a ring, but it was more of beating myself up of making a comment about it than her not wearing it. So far this week she hasn't worn it and she's seen that I've worn mine (except on Monday nite). Maybe it's sentimental or what, but I have decided I will wear it unless the divorce becomes final.
I've had a couple of girls comment to me about why I still wear it as they think I should stop, but it's my personal decision as I am still fighting for my marriage.
We did have a good dinner tonite. We did talk and laugh about various things. She wound up being cold again (it was actually really cold in the resturant to the point where I had to go back out to the car to get jackets for the kids as well as a sweatshirt for her). We went through the rubbing of the back (under her shirt) and the grabbing of her butt (under her panties) like we had during breakfast on Sunday. This time, she made a comment about how her hands were really warm though and grabbed mine to show me. She left her hand there for a bit as we held hands like we used to before her divorce bomb in Jan.
So I'm not going to read into this any more than we had a good evening out with the kids as we shared a pitcher of beer over a 2 hour dinner.
She has the kids tonite as I have to leave early to go to the job interview but will be back in time for the soccer game tomorrow nite. She did ask me to call her to let her know if I would be back in time for soccer/dinner.
So I guess, getting back to a question of is it working? I can't say. It seems like her actions are softening compared to several weeks ago, where she didn't want to do things together nor would she even ask for a hug. Now she still says she wants a divorce as she doesn't want to be my wife and has said that she doesn't want to spend time with me/us and has stopped wearing a ring. So does this match what has happened this week? Very confusing.....
Now if I go extreme dark or stop being friendly when we are together, will that help or hurt? I do agree that she will be angry and upset. So will it drive her to point of wanting to work on her or our marriage? I don't know. I do think that she is trying to work on herself through the self help books and videos that she is watching. While I may not agree with what she is reading, I do treat it as no differenet than any of us reading 5 Languages of Love or No More Mr Nice Guy or Bondaries or DR/DB.
So respect to what I'm doing, I'm continuing to work on detaching and dropping the rope and getting a life so that I will be ok whether the divorce is busted or not. I do like what how someone posted that this is where I am working on me to be ready for the next marriage. It's just that my wife doesn't know/think that it will be with her. Either way, I will be a better person and be ready to make it the marriage that both of us will be happy.
I am going to stop the pursing behavior that I have backslid into. Although it's hard to say backslide as I hadn't really stopped it, except for that short period where I became a cold jerk when I was doing dark/dim wrong. I will stop any relationship discussions with the arsenal that you all have armed me with. I have actually pretty much worked through the forgiving myself part (I had really stuggled with that several weeks ago).
I know that if it comes down to it, I can clearly look my boys in the eyes years from know and say that I tried everything that I could have to save the marriage. I am man enough to take responsibility for my part of the marriage and have learned from it to become a better person, father and hopefully husband.
Now have I dropped the rope and detached enough to call her on this separation/divorce, I know I am if we didn't have kids. Right now, I'm afraid that it seems like too much of a hail mary risk to take for the kids. Although, this may come to a head if I wind up getting a job where I will have to move. Now I know regardless of where I move, I will still see my boys on the weekends. But I do feel that it would be the final nail in the relationship with my wife.
Thanks again for all sharing your wisdom and 2x4's. I do appreciate your time and support.
I'm not giving up, but feel that either way this goes, I will be a btter person and father for it.
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Your W is weird. Don't even know why she left in the first place.
What I'm afraid of is that you're setting yourself up for a really big fall. Not because of the positive stuff going on, but because she hasn't done anything to address her problems.
I'm afraid that even if you did reconcile today, somewhere down the line, something is going to happen that's going to set her off again and you're going to find yourself here again.
Well I'm praying for you and your family.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Your W is weird. Don't even know why she left in the first place.
Stuck - I agree 100% on both statements. My wife is really tough to pin down. She had said that she left because she needed time and space to heal. She said she couldn't do it at home (not that we ever talked about it before she got her apt) as she couldn't do that constantly seeing the person who hurt her so badly.
Originally Posted By: stuck808
What I'm afraid of is that you're setting yourself up for a really big fall. Not because of the positive stuff going on, but because she hasn't done anything to address her problems.
I'm afraid that even if you did reconcile today, somewhere down the line, something is going to happen that's going to set her off again and you're going to find yourself here again.
Well I'm praying for you and your family.
You know I always appreciate your support and prayers. I do agree that even if she wanted to reconcile, there is a lot of work ahead of us to have the marriage/lives we both want. I think she knows that as she has said in the past that she is just so tired for counseling and doesn't have the energy to try or endure the hurt or the reminder of the hurt anymore.
She had even said once before how she is afraid that if we did try and I "slipped up" even once and hurt her, she wouldn't be able to deal with the hurt and knows that no one will be able to live with such scrutiny. She knows that I would try my best but also knows that I am not perfect so it will be only human to do something, even if it is very minor, that would hurt her again.
It is very sad. I do feel that she needs help (not just from support from me). Even tonite, when a song came on during dinner, she got all upset as that was one of the songs she used to turn up to drown out listening to her parents fight. She is carrying a lot of pain/burden from her past (her parents, her sister as well as us).
Thanks for stopping by and offering your prayers. It has been a rough first half of the year. I really hope the second half picks up!
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
All of them are strange but in their very special way. And the level of weird is dependent upon how they got here. Some days my H is a weirdo and other's he's normal, much like the guy who showed up in his tuxedo for our wedding.
But Confused....I think you are doing great. But stop lying....you are reading into EVERYTHING she says and does. But don't worry, I get it. We all do it. We try and try and try not to, but we do. Is that a good sign or a bad one? What the he!! did that mean? We can't help it. But as long as you just look it over, analyze it and store it away either mentally or on paper in journal or here, and don't let it make you crazy, I don't see the harm. And really, aren't we supposed to do that? Keep a log or journal of what they said or did so we can gauge progress? I do anyways. I guess what's important is not react in a negative way or freak out or backslide. And I don't think you're doing any of that. I hope the job interview goes well.
