How the hell does one find out? I won't snoop. Or should I stay with my gut of knowing this woman's core and knowing, somehow, in my gut, that she's just not having an A? Am I just borrowing non-existent trouble?
Sad to say, but you cannot judge by what her character has always been. You cannot judge by the woman you have always known. The reason is b/c that woman no longer lives in that body you see as your W. Those are very harsh words and I'm not wanting to see how badly I can hurt you. I am trying my best to make you realize that the WAW symptoms can happen to "any" woman at any age. I am proof of that. I think that was one of the main reasons that I got "away" with my EA as long as I did and was doing things right under my H's nose.....b/c he could not believe I would ever be that kind of woman! My character.....my personal moral standard.....my religious beliefs....the whole package was totally against the lifestyle I was living as an almost WAW in an EA. My H was more shocked than you probably would be to discover that about your W. So, I can't stress enough how wrong you probably are.
All WAW's are not involved with another man! Some may want to think about being single and dating, etc. Some just want to escape their "life" with their H. Simple as that! She can't take living with him any longer and wants out. So, your W may not be involved emotionally or physically with another man, however, the greatest percentage of the posts from LBH's on this board find out that their W is involved. Even in the beginning when they are told not to be surprised, they can't believe it.
If you insist in not looking for evidence of an A, then my suggestion would be to treat this "as if" she were in an EA, anyway. Would you do something different if you KNEW she was having an A? I think that might be what you need to think about. If you would not do anything different than you are now......well, I don't know, but I think it would be unusual for anyone to pretend it doesn't matter.
I don't know of of any way to find out for sure without getting evidence of an A, and how can you do that without snooping? If you are holding back b/c of integridy......you need to realize that "she" has no integridy if she's cheating on you. We can't tell you what to do. You have to decide.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
W is still not talking to me. No biggie there. I believe that she is still in denial and guilt about her infidelity from 10 years ago. I hear from my S13 who has talked to her recently that the bank is going to repo her car because she hasn't made a payment on it in two months. I finally broke down and made the minimum payments for her on her two credit cards because I didn't want her to get into collection (and at the time she was planning to come home).
Also found out that my MIL, who has always had my back, is now actively opposing me. Meh, my W needs her support more than I do, so that is no biggie either.
Life is good for me and the kids, though. Doing fun stuff with them. I don't even really think about the W all that much any more. I'm actually really starting to look forward to a life without her. Just a few months ago I wouldn't have believed that this outlook would be possible.
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
W was chatting with me on FB tonight. She was as sweet as honey! Used lots of emoticons, said my name, said that I knew how she was, etc. etc. Wow, first contact in about 10 days that wasn't an argument.
Then the reason for the season comes out: she can't make her car or insurance payment. Guess what favor she wanted to ask of me?
Ha-ha.
I asked her if she was still going to be selling it and she said she was, so I told her to just skip the payment and sell the damned thing already. That pretty much ended the conversation. She said she had to go... errands to run or some such.
So predictable.
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
It's been a while since I posted anything here. I've discovered that I have a lot of friends on this newfangled invention called Facebook, and that has been draining my free time.
I wanted to update my sitch for the sake of journaling. Here goes.
It's been quite some time since my W and I have had a real conversation. Mostly she calls once or twice a week. I keep the conversation really low key and always let her initiate the topic of discussion. Mostly she just wants to talk about the kids, or the weather, or how her dog got bit by a tick and now has Lyme disease, etc. When I notice that she is running out of talking points, I always break off the conversation and say goodbye first.
Last week, we had a pretty nasty fight. I told her that I felt pretty sure that I was done with this and that I would be filing for a divorce in the near future. My rationale was that she was still seeing the OM and was still lying about her PA of 10 years ago. My W still clings to her story that it didn't happen and that her admission was simply an effort to make me jealous. My MIL steadfastly backed up her story by claiming that it was her idea and that she had put my W up to it. This week I got my MIL to confess that that wasn't true, but that she doesn't know what my W did, but she doesn't believe that it was a PA.
This week she called a few more times than usual. It looks like the inevitable has happened: she is finally broke. The vet called her and said that her bank had insufficient funds to cover her bill and she needed to pony up 400 euro for services rendered. Her car insurance and car payment are past due, and her international drivers' license has expired, so she is currently driving illegally. She re-took her german license test and failed for a 2nd time, so she will not be getting a license any time soon.
She called me on Friday and asked if I would front her some money for her vet bill. I told her that I don't have any money that I can forward her, but I did ask her to call her visa and american express companies and get the address changed on her bills (together almost $8000) since I wouldn't be paying them. She was angry and hung up on me. Oh well. I take no joy from the absolute mess that is her life, but she made this bed for herself, and now she is having to sleep in it.
She wrote me an e-mail a few hours later and was so apologetic about what was happening and asked me to believe her. I replied that I believed she was in a real pickle of a position, and I had sympathy, but no concrete help for her. That was the last conversation that I had with her of any real substance. I suspect that she will call again in a few days and try again.
I have told her over and over again that I can forgive a lot, but that dishonesty and lies were a deal-breaker for me. If she continued to lie to me that I would be the one pulling the trigger on the marriage. On Sunday, I called my sister and asked her if she wouldn't mind calling my W's alleged AP and getting the straight dope from him. He was underaged at the time of the alleged incident, so I have refrained from digging around in that litterbox for fear of him being an ass and reporting her to the police and having her arrested as a pedophile if it turns out to be true. What has changed is that she continues to profess her innocence and I need some closure. Finding out the truth from her, or from him will give me that closure. If she is telling the truth, then I can begin the process of learning to trust her again. If she is still lying, then my last, feeble reluctance for getting a divorce will crumble.
My sister will be calling me with the news in a few hours. Honestly, at this point, I am prepared for anything. Of course, I am pre-oriented to thinking that she is still lying to me, but I am open enough to believe the contrary if that is what she discovers.
Psychologically, I think my W did have the A as she said she did to my sister back then. She was going through a phase were she was a kid again; staying out with friends, bar-hopping, letting anything happen that came along, etc. She had an almost overnight change in 2000 when we moved from our old neighborhood and she was away from those people.
Of course, she also claims that her A with her current OM has been purely emotional, but if she is a liar about the A 10 years ago, then I do not believe that her current A is not a PA either. Not that it really matters to me: a EA is worse than a PA to me; worse still are the lies about it!
Well, that's it. Hope this Wednesday finds my friends and co-DBers in improved spirits!
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
Had a FB chat with the W yesterday. I told her about the preparations for the divorce that I was making. She asked me if I was totally committed to a divorce. I replied that I was committed to resolving the problems between us, and that unless she started being honest with me, the only resolution was a divorce. She was quiet for a while; then she asked if I was seeing anyone. I told her that I had registered with a few dating sites, but that I wasn't actively pursuing anyone. She asked me if I was trying to replace her. I replied, 'Wouldn't that only be doing what you have already done?' She asked me what I thought about her, deep ib heart. I could see what she was digging for. I told her that I still had feelings for her, but that those feelings would be suppressed because I had no more trust in her. She asked what she could do to rebuild that trust. I replied, 'the only thing that can even begin to rebuild my trust in you is to start telling the truth, no matter how painful'.
Conversation ended. She is staying at her uncle's house for a few days (or so she says). She said she would call back later. In the meantime, I had my sister contact the OM from back in the day to get the scoop on what really happened.
Yup, she is a liar. I know that she is a liar, and an unrepentant one at that. She is still playing me and denying everything. She is acting sensitive out of desperation, but there is no genuine feeling there.
Just as well. The only person that didn't lie to me in her family was her father. I love him all the more for that. I am facing the reality that we are pretty much done. I will give her a couple of weeks to open up to me or I am going to make the phone call and get the papers served up. At this point, that course seems better, and more promising for my and my kids' long-term happiness, than the one I am on right now.
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
Wow, pd. I lost your thread and was just thinking about you. What a roller coaster this summer has been for you! Im sorry. But I am glad that now you have become strong enough to do what you really feel needs to be done. It still just stinks though.
I just keep thinking that its not over until its over, and even then who knows. How far you have come though. Its amazing to think about the personal growth that people who are members of this site experience. I hope that you can enjoy the rest of the weekend!
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
Thanks BR. I remember not too long ago being a bawling mess; thinking that it was all my fault and that I had been a horrible husband or else why would my W be leaving me and the kids? I dropped 70 lbs, cried incessantly, held on to every word that she said, endlessly analyzing every conversation and inflection of her voice looking for meaning.
For me, the path to healing really was letting go of the rope. I was helped along by circumstances: her lies became more egregious, her stories more incredulous, her assertions more absurd. I finally learned that she had been this way for years; right under my very nose. I had turned a blind eye to her behavior, her character. If I am to blame, it is because I should have seen the red flags much earlier.
I would hope that my sitch is atypical of the sitches here: my marriage is ending, and I am ok with that. In fact, I look forward to my next relationship. I am a loving person, with a loving family, and we didn't deserve what happened to us. I accept that my W is a philanderer and a liar and that she will find happiness someday, too.
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
It looks like you see the big picture just like I did. Our spouses were and have the potential to be good spouses, but they seem to lack some morals. The lying seems like a con job almost to me. Even though my W wanted another chance, I did not believe she had the strength to stay commited to the marriage.
I hope you are enjoying the nice warm weather we are having in the Portland area this week. It probably reminds you a bit of Utah with a bit of humidity added int.
