Hi Coach, The good thing about her long, angry emails is that they capture all her inconsistencies of logic - and her tendency to try to define me - and belittle my relationship with my S2...so, in a sense, I don't mind getting them, since it makes documenting anything she says all that much easier.
I've tried many times to remind her that I want to be able to communicate with her - but she just can't seem to keep it civil for long...as soon as I disagree with her - she just seems to lose it - and that's when I have to deal with her anger and accusations...it doesn't help that she refuses to talk about the divorce - she won't bring it up, doesn't ever address my questions regarding our divorce - and seems like she's still living in this made-up world where she can create any kind of fiction that suits her...
I definitely don't try to apply logic to the illogical anymore...so when I read her emails, I respond with simple facts - and no emotion...and that seems to trouble her all the more...
I've been thinking about what you said regarding the Atlantic article...perhaps I shall...
Rob, I usually take at least a day now to answer her emails - unless it has something to do with my son on the day I get her email. B doesn't seem anywhere close to wanting to live with a truce - and I wonder if that just won't happen until after we're finally divorced.
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I finally had to spell out to her in VERY CLEAR terms that not only would I not be treated like this, but if this is the type of adverse relationship she wanted to have, we can have it. However, I made sure to point out to her that this was a two-way street, so she can expect inflexibility from me going forward and that this was absolutely the wrong type of relationship to have for the benefit of our D. I made it clear to her that if the hostility continued, it would not be by my choice and the "blood would be on her hands and on her hands alone" as I'm no longer willing to play this sort of game. I made sure XW knew that any and all future correspondences sent by her that were hostile in any way, shape or form would not only be documented, but would not be replied to by me at all.
Hm...I've not gotten to this point yet - though it doesn't mean that it's not time...I guess the difference in your words is that you're not defending yourself - rather, you were setting boundaries. That's part of the problem with B - she did not grow up with boundaries - her father respects no one's boundaries - and she seems to have inherited his mo.
I'll let you know what comes of this...I'm sorry that you've already gone through a lot of this with someone so similar - and I always appreciate your input.
This undoing of my life has become something of a constant lesson...Right now, I'm in a situation I've never known before - in that work has just about dried up for me, and I am running low on resources...Months ago, well, last May, when this process of self-development began in earnest, I reacted by giving it everything I could - emotionally, physically, financially. I threw money at the problems with my STBX, hoping that paying for a highly-recommended (i.e. expensive) MC would help get us back on track...I then started going to a T of my own - all the while holding back and not saying anything when my STBX went on her sudden spending sprees.
I watched for the little signs, the baby steps that were supposed to help me hold out hope, and when I would see them, I would believe that I was doing the right thing - that I could be patient, keep on my raincoat, and protect myself from the anger, insults and revisions of our past - and I just kept throwing money at the problem...even once I believed that the best thing for us was to get out of the same house - I continued to pay the full rent on our house - while she moved into a place where she could just continue to pay the same amount she had contributed to our rent...these were my mistakes...these were parts of my acts of desperation - and my hopes to let her go and win her back by just allowing myself to cover the cost of everything...
And now it's biting me in the a$$...But here's the difference...a year ago, if I had found myself in this position, I probably would have allowed my stress/tension to grow into impatience and even some anger....but I'm not there now...instead...I find myself looking at my situation as somehow necessary - as somehow part of the process I have to go through in order to purge myself of still more remnants of unhealthy thinking - of unhealthy loving - and so I look at my dwindling bank account...and think...what's the opportunity there? What is it that I am missing, that I could be more open to?
I've never had to look for work before - just didn't have to do it - but now, with the economy as it's been, my freelance work has just withered away - and some of the companies I used to get regular work from just aren’t calling...
It's a situation that's making me very aware of my long-term goals - but also very attuned to my short-term concerns....and it's got me looking around my apartment and zeroing in on these dozens of rare books I had collected over the years...and suddenly I am seeing them as objects, possessions, even as little investments - and not as the small trophies of gradual success that I thought they were before...
Which is to say...that my perspective is changing a lot in terms of how I see material things. Not that I'm much of a materialist - I just have a fondness for books - perhaps it even approaches what one author refers to as that gentle madness of book collecting....but this change in my life, this end of my marriage, is changing even how I look at these fine little objects...and I'm wondering, just wondering, what will happen next...and I try to remain open to it as much as I can, while also remembering that change in life doesn't come just from accepting one's situation, but from taking action based on that acceptance.
So...last week I sent B an email that made it clear that I disagreed with her on several points regarding our son - she never responded - and instead has shown nothing but anger since...and today, as she came to pick up my son I got a nice reminder of just how caustic her temper can be....
When she arrived to pick up S2 today, he started crying and saying he didn't want to leave yet, yelling out, "not yet, not yet...no mommy stay with papi" She heard him and said, "oh, what's wrong." And her question just seemed to deflect from what my S2 was actually saying and feeling - and so I turned to her and said, "he doesn't want to go yet." To which she said, "I wasn't talking to you, you jerk." And so I offered, "Maybe you should start thinking about what's best for him instead of what's best for you." And her response was, "shut up, you a$$-f*ck. You are such a jerk." My response: "very nice, B. That's very impressive." And as I walked away she continued to yell out, "you are such a jerk." All the while holding my S2 in her arms...and apparently trying to say it loud enough for my neighbors to hear her...In the past...this behavior of hers would have angered or upset me...at least disturbed me....today, it just made me feel appalled that she could talk that way to her son's father...it's just shameful.
It does shock me that she can get that way around A - she followed it up yesterday with the most ridiculous email - pretending to apologize for her outburst - but accusing me of "trying to pick a fight" - she then went on to ask me if my S12 could travel with her and S2 to visit her family in a couple weeks....after I picked my head off the floor and reread it, it dawned on my that she's just trying to recreate drama and tension between us - much like her version of a relationship...but I'm just not at all interested.
No...I don't have to have her co-operate for the divorce - though I was hoping to go the mediator route in the best interests of our S2....such does not seem to be the case...so it looks like the divorce will end up being far more expensive than it has to be...bother.
I was pleased to see, however, that her rage and insults did not affect my mood at all - nor did I even get upset or feel any anger - it was just a feeling of disgust that someone could behave that way in front of a baby...and toward the baby's father.
It does shock me that she can get that way around A - she followed it up yesterday with the most ridiculous email - pretending to apologize for her outburst - but accusing me of "trying to pick a fight"...
...I was pleased to see, however, that her rage and insults did not affect my mood at all - nor did I even get upset or feel any anger - it was just a feeling of disgust...
...And so it goes, though...and so it goes...
Carlos,
Parsed your post a little bit above by the parts that struck me the most...
Funny you should be posting on my thread noting similarities when I was struck the same way reading these sentences...
The first is what I call "the pot calling the kettle black" syndrome and I've observed it more and more where (and I know I contributed to the "dance", too) an inflammatory statement is declared and yet it is I who is picking the fight?!? WTF?
Your second comment above makes me wonder how long it truly takes to be fully detached and the steps/emotions that have to be crossed. Does one have to pass through disgust in order to get from anger to true detachment? In order to be truly detached must one be ambivalent, in which case disgust wouold imply that detachment hasn't been achieved...
That seems like nonsense, but in the context of DBing and the goal of detachment, should we be having any feelings beyond ambivalence?
It's not an important question on a day-to-day basis, but just popped into mind as I read your post.
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
Your second comment above makes me wonder how long it truly takes to be fully detached and the steps/emotions that have to be crossed. Does one have to pass through disgust in order to get from anger to true detachment? In order to be truly detached must one be ambivalent, in which case disgust would imply that detachment hasn't been achieved...
That's a good question...and it's also part of the reason I see detachment, not as a goal, but as a process...something that's always evolving and something that one must always be working toward - no matter what the circumstances. I may be wrong about this, but I didn't feel like my disgust with B's words came from any sort of attachment - since her words would have disgusted me had I heard them said by a stranger to another person in front of a child...and, in that regard, I felt untangled from her drama - and free to see it as something that had more to do with her than me...Actually, I don't believe her insults had anything to do with me at all - so the disgust wasn't in the words - it was in hearing them spoken with a baby in her arms...it was just an ugly thing to witness...and yet another reminder that she's unsettled and unhappy and dealing with her own inner turmoil - even if she doesn't see it or admit it. It's just not healthy behavior.
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That seems like nonsense, but in the context of DBing and the goal of detachment, should we be having any feelings beyond ambivalence?
I think it's normal to have feelings beyond ambivalence - I think even anger has its place - since sometimes it’s just normal and healthy to feel angry - the trick is what we do with that anger - and whether or not we allow that anger to become a guide (which I don't think should ever be the case).
One thing that is very important to me is that I have moved on without anger - and am not angry with B about the end of our marriage - nor about her decisions. That does not mean I don't occasionally feel angry about having been hurt and taken advantage of - but rather than allowing other emotions - such as anger - to guide me in any way - I instead take a moment, or two or three, and consider that anger - dissect, allow it to cool down some, so that I can see what's at its heart..and often - almost always - that anger reveals something to me that I can work on in myself...and I think that freedom to accept and address our other emotions - without being driven by them - comes with accepting a process of detachment.
...That does not mean I don't occasionally feel angry about having been hurt and taken advantage of - but rather than allowing other emotions - such as anger - to guide me in any way - I instead take a moment, or two or three, and consider that anger - dissect, allow it to cool down some, so that I can see what's at its heart..and often - almost always - that anger reveals something to me that I can work on in myself...and I think that freedom to accept and address our other emotions - without being driven by them - comes with accepting a process of detachment.
Carlos,
I agree with everything you wrote, but can you drill down further on this one? [Sorry about the use of cliche...]
Surely such anger could be appropriate, too; it need not always, or even more times than not, reveal an implicit "fault" (something for which you must do work) in you?
And when it does point back to you, can you discern a pattern or typical place that it takes you, such that you don't repeat the dance that points back to you?
Just wondering...
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
Surely such anger could be appropriate, too; it need not always, or even more times than not, reveal an implicit "fault" (something for which you must do work) in you?
I completely agree.
For me, I've come to learn that I often feel (create) anger when I'm resisting what is and then ask myself, how futile is that?
Gardener
"My soul, be satisfied with flowers, With fruit, with weeds even; but gather them In the one garden you may call your own." Cyrano deBergerac
