Your plan, goals and actions will all be different.
Other than the steppin' out part, how will it be different?
(O'Dog has nearly the same sitch)
How will it be the same or furthering your goals? Do we really believe that the LBS is immune to the effects a OP can have on you?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Of course another person + LBS brings in all sorts of new considerations. So for this question let's say LBS is solo.
What is the difference between being Done and Not Done?
Isn't it the same set of actions? GAL, Detach, Work on yourself, Stand Up for yourself, Be a good dad/mom?
Last edited by orangedog; 07/06/0909:01 PM.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
I understand your point OD. I am thinking, are you really GAL, detaching, working on yourself if you are needing a woman/man to make yourself feel better? Aren't you just masking the symptoms with a "exciting" new relationship, wouldn't that just be script? Are you really in a emotionally healthy enough point to start a new relationship? Why can't we be happy with who we are all by ourselves for a little bit? How healthy is the other person if they will date someone who is still married? Just like it takes time to work on reconciling, won't it take time to get your self in order to start dating again? Just like it is a rule of thumb here that it takes one month for each year of marriage to start a marrige anew in a healthy way. I have heard it takes about two years to become emotionally healthy to start dating again post-divorce. No data just rules of thumb. But yes you need to GAL, detach, work on yourself, stand up for yourself, and be a great parent because it matters to you how you handle it. There lies the great irony of DB we all should have been doing it for that reason anyway not to win our spouse back. Being done to me means you have crossed your turn around point (PCTAP) and have passed the point of a reconciliation. That's purely a individual call, no judgement or condemnation from me. So yes you should have the same course of action if your intention has been the same all along. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Understood. (O'Dog had no plans for new R for a while.)
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
SO are your declaring yourself done? Your plan, goals and actions will all be different. The possiblity to reconcile will become smaller.
I am declaring myself already dead. But I have always -- well, for much of time -- declared myself already dead.
@Greek poked a stick in my cage, leveling the "you're a walkaway" charge at me. @Kalni took exception to this notion. @Greek said that from @Greek's POV I'm "still married" -- which would, by definition, mean that I am (preparing to have) having an affair.
I am merely pointing out that, at law, I am not married. The state does not list me as "Married." It lists me as "Legally Separated." I am in a different category.
I then pointed out that there are those -- @Puppy, for example -- who are "always" married until the marriage is dissolved. This, I said, was a question of "will" -- or personal preferences -- and not a juridical matter.
But on the great tote-board of the Superior Court system of Coastal County here in Coastal State, I have been moved from Category M to Category LS.
Thus, I cannot be "stepping out" on my "marriage," there being no "marriage" -- in other than a psychological sense of the term -- out of which to step.
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The possibility to reconcile will become smaller.
The possibility was always small, approaching nil. As she wrote to her sister in one of the emails left on my computer, "There will be no reconciliation -- never (but I didn't tell him that, of course). I'm going to counseling because if I do I hope he'll be more cooperative about the money."
We're actually in the middle of a spat right now, as a matter of fact. She texted 3 times and then left a VM because I didn't reply to her texts, which said that the day-camp had called her because D6 "isn't herself." She then e-mailed to follow-up on the VM that followed-up on the texts to say she VM'd instead of texting because she assumed I was on a date and was ignoring her.
Now this is the woman who, 1 hour before, saw me in my running gear, having received a text 3 hours before that said I might -- or might not -- be in the house when she arrived, depending on when I left for my long training run for the Chicago Marathon I got talked into. (11.5 miles today.)
But, when I (finally) replied with a jocular -- I'm on a date? Aren't you one to talk? -- she wigged out.
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Nobody said this was a fair and equitable battle.
No, nobody did. And I don't recall ever having said someone had.
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If I were you I would pray for wisdom and discernment. (had to sneek that in :))
Awesome! I love it! Good Christian Man Friend said the same thing during our tennis game last Friday. Soon as I find a goat and a chicken bone I'll get on that.....
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Be wary of making a long term decision based on a emotional near term want. Most people don't make great decisions when they are scared or greedy.
Not following you on this one. If I "sounded" scared in my discussion of WAW's date today....I must not have had the sound high enough (it goes to 11). I'm accepting of it. It's her journey now -- not "ours."
are you really GAL, detaching, working on yourself if you are needing a woman/man to make yourself feel better?
From my POV? Absolutely. Getting A Life. Sex is part of that. End of story.
You're over-reaching by a considerable degree here, Coach. "Needing" a woman in the "yee-haw I need some sex" sense of "need" is not the same thing as "needing" a woman in order to define yourself as an autonomous individual.
I can need a dentist, need a doctor, need a new car, need a pizza, need a beer, need a new housekeeper (I do, actually), need some new shorts (I do, actually -- shrunk from a 34 to a 32), need to get out and mow the lawn, need need need.
None of those presumptive "needs" diminishes from my personhood, from my autonomy, from my identity.
There's a lot of this, "Oh, well, you need a woman to feel like a man, like a Big Shot" stuff around here. Bullsh*t. What's the difference between GALing and getting a new (male) friend, with whom you hang out and fart around and watch sports, and a new (female) friend, with whom you hang around and fart around and watch sports and then take a healthy roll in the hay? Apart from the moralistic aspect which (some) may assign to the latter activity, I don't see one.
Oh, well, you're supposed to be DB'ing, being a better you, cleverly constructing that Old Golden Bridge for WAS. Again, I don't see what one has to do with the other.
Well, you can't DB if you're not focused on WAW and focused on another W. But aren't I not supposed to be focused on WAW? Aren't I not supposed to be doing X or Y to "get WAW back?" Aren't I supposed to be moving on?
Well for me -- and I respect those on the other side of the aisle -- moving on includes banging the gong.
The possibility was always small, approaching nil. As she wrote to her sister in one of the emails left on my computer, "There will be no reconciliation -- never (but I didn't tell him that, of course). I'm going to counseling because if I do I hope he'll be more cooperative about the money."
We're actually in the middle of a spat right now, as a matter of fact. She texted 3 times and then left a VM because I didn't reply to her texts, which said that the day-camp had called her because D6 "isn't herself." She then e-mailed to follow-up on the VM that followed-up on the texts to say she VM'd instead of texting because she assumed I was on a date and was ignoring her.
Now this is the woman who, 1 hour before, saw me in my running gear, having received a text 3 hours before that said I might -- or might not -- be in the house when she arrived, depending on when I left for my long training run for the Chicago Marathon I got talked into. (11.5 miles today.)
But, when I (finally) replied with a jocular -- I'm on a date? Aren't you one to talk? -- she wigged out.
You two seem way to concerned about what the other might be doing. Are either one of you really detached?
I didn't think you "sounded" scared. Why don't you make ten a little louder, make that the top number and make that a little louder? Don't worry I know the answer.
I think you might be a tad bit more emotional right now than you believe. Just my observation. Lot's of stress, turmoil and uncertainty in your world. As a coach I go back to basics when things get hairy instead of trying to add new plays. Go to a place of ritual and proficiency. Good for your confidence, energy and focus. Wax on, wax off.
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Being done to me means you have crossed your turn around point (PCTAP) and have passed the point of a reconciliation.
Check-out @Coach, busting out the aireator speak!
To me being "done" means you're no longer willing to invest an iota of work into the process, just as it means that for WAS.
Passing the point of reconciliation is, I think, a different matter. For one, you don't know where that point is ('cause you're not allowed to read WAS's mind). For another, this is a strategic interaction, not a static decision-process where there exists some defined point, R, beyond which the outcome is Not-R. There is no define Failsafe point in the sky.
If I had the time -- Time, it's always Time (that old b*tch) -- I'd do the math and write a game-theoretical analysis of the DB'ing process. I'd do a quick-and-dirty game tree, but the interface is too limited for that (I think).
You two seem way to concerned about what the other might be doing. Are either one of you really detached?
This is very frustrating. It's like talking to WAW.
Does everything have to have some kind of disclaimer? Is it not possible simply to review conversations -- let alone to have them -- without having to add an infinite series of addenda and clarifications?
I'm not "concerned" if she's dating -- I'm thrilled! It means she's putting her life together (ideally), moving forward.
My point was simply that she wigged out at my doing exactly what she did -- asking about a date, or implying there was one, or something (it's not even clear to me why she wigged out).
