Going straight forward...antlers 5th thread.

[antlers]

Hi Antlers,

I wanted to reply to something you posted on Alive & Kicking's thread, but it locked....so I'm glad she has responded here and I can tell both of you together. This really concerned me when I saw this quote.

Kinda confusing to me too, where dishonesty and game playing trump honesty and sincerity! DB'n is good and sound advice, and the principles are solid. I don't know if DB'n really includes dishonesty and game playing! I think you are strong and solid for being sensitive and straight forward! I think you can DB like a mutha...and still be honest, sensitive, and straight forward!

Fist of all....DBing never, NEVER teaches to be dishonest. Nowhere in the book does it say to lie, cheat, or be dishonest. It does teach that the LBS is not required to tell every move that he/she makes in GAL, and it does teach to be mysterious. I have discovered that some people misunderstand and apparently do not know how to do this WITHOUT lying. I don't get it! Can people not figure out how to GAL and be a little mysterious about themeselves without telling a lie?

Now about "game playing". We could call life itself a "game" of sorts but somebody would get offended over that. I even refer to the techniques of DBing as like a "game" but that does not mean it isn't a serious as a heartattack! It is simply a term. Also, just b/c we use the DB principles does not mean for one second that we are not sensitive people! It doesn't mean we have stopped being straighforward people. But let me tell you something........you LBS have to be told this stuff or you will hang yourselves! You see it as being straightforward when a WAS sees it as "needy", "clingy", "desparate", etc. You chase and plead and won't stand up to the WAS and you call it being sensitive and straightforward. Don't forget what works and what doesn't. The tragidy about most of the people who come to the DB board have waited too late to seek this out and by the time they do come and discover all they've done wrong, the WAS is on their way to the D court. So, don't put the principles of DBing down if they don't work in a particular stitch and don't say it is being anything less than truthful.

dishonesty and game playing trump honesty and sincerity

Perhaps some inexperienced or ill advised person has passed that along and it grew out of context....I don't know. But, I believe Michele never intended for anyone to think her DR techniqes are less than honorable.

I do not know where on earth you get this idea from DBing. At times it may sound or even feel like a "game" is being played when you LBS are told to "act as if" when the truth of the matter is they don't "feel" anything that they are advised to do. But, as I told another person earlier, if we do what is right first...then the feelings will follow. That is what I have to do as a former WAW who did not want to stay in her M. That is what DB tries to teach the LBS to do b/c their minds are confused and their emotions are all over the place.

So, there are my 2-cents worth about that.

Sandi

Hey Sandi! So glad to hear from you!

I agree that DB'n NEVER teaches to be dishonest! It seems like there is some game-playing, lying, cheating, and dishonesty that goes on sometimes when people are working on themselves and trying to salvage their marriages! My point was that I DON'T think that DB'n teaches that!

After I've screwed up as bad as I have in the past...I choose to be sensitive and straightforward (honest). I appreciate being told the things I need to hear from people like you! I haven't been 'needy, clingy, or desparate' in a good while! I don't feel that way anymore...and I haven't for a good while! I don't 'chase or plead' anymore...and haven't for a good while! 'Standing up' to her is something I have to think about, and handle carefully, because of the controlling and overbearing prick I was in the past! My intentions are to stop doing what doesn't work, and do more of what does work! I think I've been doing OK at that. I for one wish I had known about this site back in December of last year! I could have avoided a lot of the mistakes that I made that only served to push her further away! It's possible that you misunderstood my post Sandi, in that I NEVER put the principle of DB'n down...and I NEVER said they were anything less than truthful. Instead, I supported the principle of DB'n, and said they didn't include any of the negative things that were already mentioned!

Yeah...it was taken out of context, in that I supported the notion that DB'n includes honesty and sincerity and does NOT include dishonesty and game-playing. I think the techniques that Michelle teaches are nothing but honorable.

I don't know where on earth that you get the idea that I feel anything other than what I'm telling you now! I've never said otherwise. I think it's possible that you misread, or misunderstood my post that you referred to! I feel...a lot! I appreciate being given advice from people who are much more knowledgeable and experienced at this than I am! I intend to do what is right...first and foremost, and think I have been doing it for a good while now. That's not to say that I won't make mistakes or mess up! I'm a human being. My emotions are more in check now than they have been since this whole awful episode in my life began.

I'm thankful that you are here Sandi. I hope things are going well with you. Please stay in touch with me! Thanks.

antlers