AWESOME! This brings up an issue in my marriage to the STBXH. At the end of our relationship, he brought up how mad he was that I made him throw away his dragon shirts. That I had tried to change him into the dad (tshirts, blue jeans, khakis). He had asked me years before if I liked his shirts (dragon). I said that I didn't. He threw them away on his own accord. When this got brought up during the ILYBNILY speech, he said that I made him throw them away. I told him that I did not like the shirts, but never told him that he needed to throw them away and I never told him not to wear them when he wanted to. They were his clothes and I loved him in whatever he wore and felt comfortable in. I never realized how emeshed he was in my opinions of him. This was a definite eye opener for me. He said when he left that he had tried for so long to change. He was changing things that were not important to me! UGH! *slapping forehead*
"It is excruciating pain. It is the pain of separation, the pain of loss, the pain of dreams and expectations unrealized. It is the loss and death of a mirage."
They can 'turn them on with each other'! It's possible, with work, to get rid of the bad...and increase the good!
Absolutely true. But that's the DB puzzle in a nutshell, isn't it? How do you convince someone who, by definition, doesn't want to "work" to "work" against the probability that the work won't, er, work -- at least from their POV?
You just do the work...period! You get rid of the bad...and increase the good! They might come back...and they might not! You will be better off though, regardless...if you do the work!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
SP, You have more in common with Mrs. SP now than ever before. You can relate to her in ways not possible until now. Much of what you write in this post could be what she said to her sympathetic ears a year or so ago. If only they would have stood up to her and reminded her that she is STILL married ~ to honor her committment to her H in the face of adversity.
You are still married.
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
Reconciling seems like a good concept in theory......"the old marriage is dead...." yadda, yadda....
But the thing is, after a betrayal like infidelity, the trust never comes back. We can forgive till the cows come home, but trust is something else entirely. I think there would always be that sickening little niggling of doubt. Blech....
Reconciling seems like a good concept in theory......"the old marriage is dead...." yadda, yadda....
But the thing is, after a betrayal like infidelity, the trust never comes back. We can forgive till the cows come home, but trust is something else entirely. I think there would always be that sickening little niggling of doubt. Blech....
You've lost me here. Many if not most marriages deal with betrayals and/or infidelities and many of those thrive...
There can always be "that sickening little niggling of doubt..." whether there has been exposed infidelity or not. Your focus changes from what is the other person doing to what am I doing and am I getting what I want out of the relationship. If you make absolute infallibility a prerequisite to M, well, we should toss the institution all together...
I am not saying infidelity is minor, I AM saying there are many ways to screw over a partner and that is just one.
Yes, Kimmie, it is hard. But it is not impossible. Trust and commitment after reconciling are actually easier for me than they were before the whole adventure. That is because I do believe that he is sorry. And he knows that I am sorry for the mistakes that I made. Now we are choosing to commit and trust with the full knowledge of what happens when one partner strays. We know the confusion and the pain on both sides, and we are choosing not to do it. Commitment and trust are more meaningful to us now than they were when we were amateurs, and young and in love.
AWESOME! This brings up an issue in my marriage to the STBXH. At the end of our relationship, he brought up how mad he was that I made him throw away his dragon shirts. That I had tried to change him into the dad (tshirts, blue jeans, khakis). He had asked me years before if I liked his shirts (dragon). I said that I didn't. He threw them away on his own accord. When this got brought up during the ILYBNILY speech, he said that I made him throw them away. I told him that I did not like the shirts, but never told him that he needed to throw them away and I never told him not to wear them when he wanted to. They were his clothes and I loved him in whatever he wore and felt comfortable in. I never realized how emeshed he was in my opinions of him. This was a definite eye opener for me. He said when he left that he had tried for so long to change. He was changing things that were not important to me! UGH! *slapping forehead*
The bold is his problem, his issue to resolve and has little to do with you. Let's just say I relate.
@aliveandkicking wrote in response to @Sara and @Kimmie Lee: Quote: Obviously when you live with someone and are in a difficult relationship, you see your S through a different lens. I think that's exactly right. Male and female alike, I suspect it's often the case that Total Desirability and Length of Marriage are inversely related.
Herself has said on a couple occasions, "I know you'll find someone else, you're great," most recently in The Note. And she's mentioned my obvious "opportunities" and "prospects" recently. And a couple woman friends she's told have had the initial, shocked, "you let THAT go?" response. But as she likes to say, I'm a nice guy, just not her guy. So it's not a matter of leaving something valuable in the trash -- it's not wanting that valuable anymore. A couple years ago, WAW basically called "halt" on gold jewelry and switched to silver and platinum. Nothing wrong with gold, had a bunch of it -- just didn't suit her any more. Boring. Last decade.
That's Smiley's Person in a nutshell, I guess -- good as gold.
Forgive me but sorry, no way. She ripped you apart and trashed you and you're cherry picking one of the kinder WAS versions of the story. And my point is that she isn't and doesn't see you through the lens that a new woman sees you through because she wont allow herself to because she's on a road to something else in her mind and liking you, valuing you, appreciating you makes that harder.
@alive then wrote: Quote: Do you see what I'm saying? Basically, finding someone to boost your ego and make you "feel good" about yourself means nil about the circumstances or culpability in the M. IMO.
Ummm, no -- I actually don't see what you're saying.
It's true that "someone to boost your ego" means nothing about what you did in the marriage. But I'm not clear why that matters. Can't you both acknowledge what you did in the M and get your ego boosted? Or are those mutually exclusive variables -- they cancel each other out? Or is your claim that a person in a D situation is "unauthorized" to feel good about him- or herself until such time as all debts (emotional, psychic) are paid?
You're getting defensive. I was merely pointing out that ego boosts, easy sex, gratification etc. (which I think are just fine if it works for you), have nothing to do with whether you were a good husband or delivered in your marriage. And, I'm projecting more because my H seems to think "look, I'm awesome...chicks dig me." And that is just shallow silliness that means nothing about who he was with me and in the context of a marriage and real responsibilities. Even those remarking "what, she let that go?" have no frickin' clue what I lived with (nor do those remarking about you in that way). We all know you're awesome here...I am just saying that it is of little significance with regard to what went down with your W.
Reconciling seems like a good concept in theory......"the old marriage is dead...." yadda, yadda....
But the thing is, after a betrayal like infidelity, the trust never comes back. We can forgive till the cows come home, but trust is something else entirely. I think there would always be that sickening little niggling of doubt. Blech....
So ... the take-away here, Kimmie, is...?
Never?
Always?
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
