We just past the 8.5 week "anniversay" of where she moved out and approaching 6 months since she filed for divorce and 3 weeks since they elminated my position at work so I lost my job.
I do have a "second" on-site interview scheduled for a job next Thurs that is 185 miles away. The recruiter thinks that they will likely make an offer (he discussed the "unoffical" offer terms) on Thursday.
Had a really crappy conversation with my wife on Weds nite, after a really good family dinner thing. It got into a relationship talk that lasted about an hour. She started going on about the "connection" that a husband and wife should have that we don't. I went down the route of the connection doesn't just happen, it needs to be worked on.
She tried the history of hurt route but I stopped her with the I appologized for that already and have learned from it.
Then she went into how she's too afraid to be vulnerable at the risk of getting hurt again to try and create the connection.
So it went full circle again on the relationship conversation.
Yesterday, was my first one on one day with my 3 year old as the 7 year old had a camp field trip. It was a great day and we really had a blast. Very good father-son bonding time.
My wife did call me early in the morning as the nite before I asked if she could find the hiring manager of a job that was posted in her company. She found the info for me and said she could forward my resume and cover letter for me.
Then she sent me some tactical stuff and then some funny stuff and finally something complaining about how much work she had to do. Still alot of contact from someone who said that she doesn't want to spend time with me as she doesn't want to give me false hope as she has given up finding a reason to change her mind and doesn't want to be my wife anymore.
Last nite she sent me a text in distress about some stuff not related to our situation. I called her as she sounded really upset in her text.
She vented about her problem (related to her dentist stuff). Then we got into some light conversation where we were just joking back and forth. Then I mentioned that a movie that our kids wanted to see was showing at a local theatre that we enjoy taking the kids to. She then got all upset saying that she was planning on taking them on Sunday and got mad that I was "cheating" her out of that opportunity. She said that the kids already always want to be with me and don't want to be with her because she doesn't have as much chance to do fun stuff with them. I stopped her by saying that I didn't bring it up to get into an argument and the time with the kids is not a competition. This was a movie that I wanted to see as much as the kids and had mentioned it to see if she wanted to come if we went.
She then started saying that she didn't want to do things with me and the kids as she doesn't want to give us false hope. I stopped her right then and there and said that we already talked about that yesterday and it seems like we are constantly repeating the same conversation and not getting anywhere. I told her that I know she feels that she can't be vulnerable with me as she's afraid of getting hurt again. I then said that relationships with people involve risks. It's as much of a risk for me if she does want to try again as I don't want to be hurt again either. But I told her that I feel it is worth the risk. I can't make her try to think of a reason to try nor be willing to take the risk. That is her decision.
She was crying again as we got into the whole trying discussion.
I ended the call as she was just crying and not saying anything.
I was very surprise to get a call from her this morning where she said she was going to the store and asked if I needed anything. I maintained a very positive and upbeat attitude and told her a couple of things that was on my shopping list. She said that she would pick them up for me and drop them off this weekend.
I then reminded how she still "owed" me her special homemade potato salad that she promised to make for Father's day weekend but hadn't gotten to . She said she remembers and said she owes me brownies as well. It was just general light/fun bantering about it.
Then I told her that if she was going to pick up those things for me at the store, can she see if there were any "hugs" that she could get for me. She laughed and said that she didn't think there were greeters at that store. I told her that I guess I won't ask for that other "special" something that I was looking for. She just laughed.
She then called me a couple of times afterwards just about general tactical stuff.
She's suppose to head out to a picnic at one of her girlfriend's house today. I'm spending the day with my 2 boys (the 3 year old is taking a nap right now and my 7 year olds just finished playing video games).
I still really miss her but I know that I will be ok where ever our situation leads us. I do put my faith in God as my aunt has reminded me that God never gives us any burdens that he knows that we can't handle. I just have to continue to believe
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
So, how should I respond to "afraid to be vulnerable at the risk of getting hurt again?"
The very same way you responded to the "history route". Look, she has been over and over this same old thing and she will continue to do it as long as you put up with her yacking. Stop her and tell her that everything in life has a "risk factor" and that nobody gets off scott free. We all take chances of getting hurt if we are going to have "people" in our life. It sounds as if she's wanting to pull you into a further conversation of persuading her to go back to you. It's an old female ploy with men. Don't know how to explain it to a DAM.....
Sandi,
I actually tried this route in the convesation last nite so your post was VERY well timed.
I did get into a little conversation to persuade her to go back to me. I told her that I loved her and wanted her not because she was the mother of our kids, but because she is the woman I love. That's when she started to cry. I told her I loved, honored and cherished her the best that I knew how in the past, but see how there is so much more that I would do know that I am approaching life differently and my priorities have really changed (before it was all about the job and money and providing things for the family). She did acknowledge how she see's how I've changed relative to things like that.
I'm not sure if it helped or not, but she did call this morning asking if I need stuff from the store. VERY ODD.....
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Don't really want to get into the "whys" of you not being completely open and honest with her regarding your job offer, but I would say that if you've been this way about things in the past.....that is a habit you need to break. It causes "trust" issues in a R. You may not have seen what you said....or "how" you said it as being a lie....but it wasn't completely "right" either b/c you withheld all the truth as it was. You are S in the M, so you did not have to tell her everything at this time, but be careful in the future about how you word things, okay?
I didn't tell her about the offer as I hadn't officially gotten one yet. I did let her know that they seemed very interested and I thought the position was intersting, but didn't get much further than that before it turned into a relationship discussion.
You are right though, in the past I had "held back the entire truth" a few times, partly to protect her and the other part to avoid looking like I didn't have the answer (an issue I have, fear of failure).
Thanks for stopping bye with your club again.
I hope you enjoy the holiday weekend.
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Overall a very nice day with the boys. Fantastic weather so we spent most of the day outside.
I got a little sad again when I was eating dinner with the boys. Not exactly sure why. I think it's because dinner time in the past was when the 4 of us were together. It's very odd as it has been the 3 of us (or just me) for dinner for several weeks now, but it still hurts. I know I need to let go/detach/drop the rope. Some days are better than others though.
Both my boys got worn out by 7 PM (usually they aren't even worn out when it's their bed time at 8:30 PM).
My wife didn't call to say good nite to the boys, nor did the boys ask to call her. It's odd even as she called me several times today, she never asked to speak to the boys. I know she says that she misses them, but don't understand why she doesn't call to talk to them or at least say goodnite.
I'm also still thinking about what she said about our relationship lacking a connection. She seems to be under the impression that connections just happen and are either there or not there. I know we were connected at one point and she feels it faded as we got stuck in our rut.
My cousin (she's in her early 30's as well) tried to explain it to me where a connection's worst enemy is boredon. She's had several relationships that ended because she never communicated what she needed/wanted. She has learned now and has been in a long term serious relationship for 6+ years. Guess this is a lesson that my wife and I has learned. She didn't communicate her needs to the point that I understood and I didn't take the time to understand what she needed.
So guess that leads to my question, how do you establish a connection with a WAW? She has said that she's given up finding a reason to try again. So what's the next step......
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
So guess that leads to my question, how do you establish a connection with a WAW? She has said that she's given up finding a reason to try again. So what's the next step......
You work on YOU. Maybe your W comes back or maybe not. You cannot control that - and yeah, that sux. It is a fact though.
So, you have a couple of choices. First, you can give up. Second, you can continue to work on improving you and your R with your kids. Making yourself a better person = making you more attractive to your W. But remember, the work is for you, not her.
She will notice your work. What she chooses to do about it is HER decision. You just make yourself available for her to see those changes.
Thanks for checking in on my situation. I always appreciate people's perspective on my situation.
I have been working on myself, although the getting a life part has slowed down since I lost my job. I am suppose to go out with my buddies this Sunday though.
I did have a great day with my boys - I usually do. That's one of the upsides of this "forced vacation" that I'm on. Because we had to cut back on camp and day care, I get the boys 4-5 days/nites a week now. That is actually one of the things I may try to negotiate if they make an offer next week. To see if I can delay starting till the start of the school year so I can spend the entire summer with the boys.
Although this has slowed down my getting a life (having the boys so much and also being worried about cash).
I know I can't make her find a reason or even search for a reason to try. It's just that right now, she still seems to initiate alot of contact (i.e. even this morning, asking if I needed anything at the store). So I was thinking how do I take that opportunity to try and establish a "connection".
I've tried the friendly route where I listen and support and empathize (things that I hadn't done when we were together) as that was part of my 180. In the past, I would act as if I didn't have the time to be bothered with her "petty" problems/thoughts.
We still laugh/joke around, even sexually at times.
So is what I'm doing establish a connection or is it just an "artificial harmony of friendship" that is going keep us at arms length......
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
So is what I'm doing establish a connection or is it just an "artificial harmony of friendship" that is going keep us at arms length......
Don't know. Sounds like there is a connection there. But, don't know where it leads.
My WAW and I are still in teh same house - different rooms. She also "reaches out" the same way your W does - "need anything from the store" etc.). But the wall is definitely there.
I had to start detaching b/c otherwise, I was going nuts. So, now I just focus on me. And, yes, I miss her, or at least the good parts of what was "her."
Someone else much wiser than me put it this way. I'm working on my next relationship. I hope that is with my W, but she may not be wise enough to know that. If not, then God has someone else out there who needs me more than my W. May not be what I want right now, but I may also end up being happier than I have ever been.
Your cousin made an excellent point. "A connection's worst enemy is boredom"! Man--oh man--oh man! Is that ever true! Let me tell you something about my stitch. I had been soooo bored out of my mind until I thought I would go nuts. Now, it was as much my fault (or more so) than my H's b/c I should have done something to keep "myself" from being bored. But the biggest issue was that I was bored in the R. He became boring to me. When that happens.....trouble is knocking on the door.
Let me explain. I have told people (and it was the truth) that we had had a lot of family problems (our grown children's issues, etc.) and that stuff will really pull a couple down. You are burdened down as an individual--and as a couple. So, that's not good. I was already depressed over several things and had struggled with depression for many years. Then other things kept adding to the heap and it was if I just couldn't handle anything anymore. I was entering that "run away and escape" mode.
I was totally burned-out on watching TV. That had been all my H ever wanted to do in the evenings. No conversation....nothing, just watch TV. This had gone on for years and years. So, nothing was on the programming that I enjoyed. I didn't even enjoy movies that were brought home b/c I was "burned-out".
I was so bored, but I had health problems also and did not physically feel like going anywhere or doing any activities. I did not have any energy. Of course, that comes with depression, also. Anyway, in my state of boredom, I began playing games on the Internet. I played all the free on-line games that doesn't require anyone else playing along in the game with you. Finally, that got old, so I began playing the games that require a partner. Along with those type of games....the two people can "chat" as they play. You know where I'm going with this, don't you? Yes, it become flirtatious. So many men use these avenues as a means of "hitting" on women. Well, at first I would not respond to the flirting. But finally I did, and it was "fun". I stated to enjoy the flirting and began to respond to some of the things the men would say. Of course they always wanted to be added to "my friends" list. That way, they could just "chat" any time...and not have to use a game. When you go there.....you are in trouble b/c they have one thing on their minds.....sex. The conversation always led to sex. Even the men who seemed like pretty nice guys would eventually get around to sexual talk. Some did not waste any time and got right down to business. Anyway, after a while of this, I was really addicted. I craved for the attention of OM (other men.....not "man"). I am baring my soul here and don't know why I am talking so much, but just want to tell you about it.
It was horrible. I became somebody I didn't even recognize any longer. After a while of this playing games and flirting with men on line, the addiction became even stronger and I was bored with the games. I needed a stronger "fix".....just like when taking drugs. I am so embarrassed to tell this, but I've told it several time here on the board.....but I went on an adult chat line. There is where I met my OM.
So, in my state of stupidity, I got very, very careless about my use of the computer and my H found my messages to OM. He confronted me and I did not lie to him. I didn't say anything. What could I say--b/c he had read EVERYTHING I had written to OM. I just sat and cried out of humiliation. My H told me to go delete OM and end it. So, I cried my eyes out when I thought I was deleting contact with OM without even telling him good-bye. Can you believe that I was so addicted to the ego food that OM had been giving me that I was "crying" when I though that souce was being cut off from me?
I did not know too much about how all the message stuff works (...duh) and the next night when I was on the computer....the OM was able to tell when I went on-line and so his name pops up on the screen and he's asking me what's going on. Well, I hung on to him for dear life. I acted and felt as though he was my "life-line". That is how "addicted" I was. Isn't it terrible? Of course, I kept it all a secret from my H. But my H got suspicious and he began to "watch" me while I was on the computer. He would try to "catch me" in the mist of my communicating with OM. Oh, I nearly hated my H for acting the way he was during all of that time of my EA. He was acting very out of character! Well......needless to say.....so was I. My H was trying to control my behavior. It didn't work. It only made me more sneaky.
I had a web cam where OM and I could see each other. One day I came home from work and guess what? The web cam was gone. When I asked my H about it, he said that I and OM were too tempted to use it. I was so outraged at him treating me like a child!! I felt as if my intelligence had been insulted! Did he not think I knew how to install another computer cam? Well, I won't continue with all of that, but it became pretty ugly before it was over.
I was not the woman who had always taken such a strong stand on moral character in a M. I was a stranger to my family.....and even to myself. I won't go on with all of that, but the point is that it all started with....BOREDOM!! Oh, how sad!
I became an almost WAW. I stayed a WAW in my heart for a long time. That is something that does not go away in a matter of a few days. Even after I "wanted" to do what I knew was the right thing....I had that WAW mentality to battle.
At the beginning of my EA, my H would snoop to see my computer activity. He tried to force me to be a "good girl". Then he pursued me with his words of love and his smothering affection. I would not respond to that b/c it turned me off.....BIG TIME. Finally, my H detached. I thought he'd just given up and left me alone. That is when I finally began to seek help and found this board.....and then after a lot of time....I finally ended the EA. It was awful. It took a long, long time for me to find "myself" again. It took a long time and a lot of praying to began to have feelings for my H. Thank God, my H could forgive me and still love me. (BTW, we are doing really good now..... )
Well, hope you don't mind that I shared all of that humiliating experience with you. It still blows my mind that that happened. That I....'me'....Sandi....was that person back then. Now, I am NOT saying that it was God's will....b/c it most certainly was not! Okay? Sin in our lives is never God's will. However, it humbled me like you would not believe. I will never look down my nose in a self-righteous way and "judge" another person for their sin. At least, I won't do it intentionally. I found out through my own experience that "anybody" can fall. ANYBODY! If somebody had told me six months before that I would do what I did.....I probably would have tried to knock them out.....!~ That was how "stauch" I was about those things.
I hope that through my own personal experience of an EA and wanting to walk away from my M, I can tell others here how I felt as a WAW, and try to warn the LBS about the "Dos & Don'ts".
Okay, I've gone on & on, so I'll hush. Thanks for letting me visit with you tonight. Maybe.....just maybe I stumbled on some tidbit that helped you. I hope so.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to be vulnerable and sharing such a personal experience with me. That was very powerful and really touched me.
I look back over the past few years and can see how my wife had been trying to tell me that we were stuck in a rut and it was boring. I didn't see it back then, but I see it now. I wasn't bored as my job used to take me all over the world (Europe, Asia) for a week every couple of months. So I wasn't bored, but I completely forgot to take what my wife had been going through. Even the other nite, when she was "rehasing the past" she talked about how she would just want to go to the grocery store by herself so she could listen to her music in the car (vs the kids music all the time). I didn't get it then, but I see it now. I think she sees that I see it differently now.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Then he pursued me with his words of love and his smothering affection. I would not respond to that b/c it turned me off.....BIG TIME. Finally, my H detached. I thought he'd just given up and left me alone.
I have been trying some of the words of love during some of our chats (sometimes just little terms of endearment, i.e. calling her hun; to flat out telling her that I love her). I would touch her on her arm or shoulder when we are together for a family thing, trying not to be sexual, but just an affection type of touch. I would always look at her in her eyes when she/we talk and stay engaged (mentally and emotionally) in the conversation. Not sure if this is what you talked about that you didn't respond to.
It's confusing for me as when I do get into these relationship talks, she always winds up crying to the point where she can't talk. I am pretty sure she is sad that we are on this divorce path, even though it is her that is keeping us there.
I am trying to detach without become the cold jerk that I was the first 4-5 weeks after she moved out.
Thanks for dropping in and checking up on me again.
Take care and stay healthy!
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Someone else much wiser than me put it this way. I'm working on my next relationship. I hope that is with my W, but she may not be wise enough to know that. If not, then God has someone else out there who needs me more than my W. May not be what I want right now, but I may also end up being happier than I have ever been.
I have been approaching it that the relationship and marriage that my wife and I had is dead. I had even told her that I didn't want our old relationship/marriage as I see it wasn't very healthy/happy. What I want is a new/better relationship with her and shape it into something that we are both happy with.
That is a GREAT way you had quoted to put it. I am going to have to save that somewhere that I can see.
Thanks!
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
When we woke up, we all worked on making breakfast together and the boys set the table.
We spent most of it outside as the weather was beautiful. I dug out some remote control toys for them to play with. Their favorite was the flying UFO. We cooked out for lunch and I tried to keep my 3 year old up as long as possible before his nap so he would take a long one since we were going to see the fireworks tonite (they normally go to bed at 8:30). He lasted about 40 minutes past his normal nap time before he came up to me to ASK for his nap. My 7 year old and I played video games while his brother napped
When the 3 year old woke from his nap, we worked together to make a snack as well
Then we went to my buddy's picnic. The boys brought their soccer and baseball stuff to play with.
We ate when we got there and it turned out there was a carnival going a couple of blocks from their house. We went over and the kids loved the rides. My friends came with us and bought them cotton candy.
In the middle of the carnival, my wife called to talk to the boys (it was only 7:45, when she does call it's usually closer to 8:30). I let her talk to the boys but after a few minutes she realized we were out at a carnival and asked if we could call her later when it was a better time
When we got back to my friend's picnic, I has the boys sit in the bed of my truck to talk to my wife. They really weren't interested in talking so after a couple of minutes, they both just said bye and went off to play after they gave me the phone. I noticed the phone was still connected so I said "hello?" and she was still on
I asked how she was and she said she was really down. She said she didn't go to the picnic yesterday and had been just moping around her apt all day. I told her that she is welcome to join is to watch fireworks if she wants. Then I said have a goodnite and hung up
As it got dark, the boys had a blast making a firefly lantern out of water bottles. Then the fireworks started. It was a great nite. The only way it could have been better if my wife was with us.
We got home after 10:30 PM and the boys were exhausted as they went right to bed. My wife sent me an email around 11:30 PM. I called her as I couldn't tell what the picture was that she sent me. Turned out it was a sunset ( it looked like a planet). She then started saying how she has been so sad and down the last couple of days. I told her that I had noticed. She said she spent most of the day watching self help videos that made her cry. One was about relationships that she wished she watched years ago. Then another was related to the science of success book she had been reading.
We chatted for about 35 minutes. We didn't get into rehashing the relationship talk but I did tell her that it was a great nite which could only have been better if she was there with me. She asked why since she wasn't being very nice to me. I told her I know she hasn't but she is still my wife and I do think about her often. She said that I should call her if I wanted to. I told her that I'm still trying to respect her time and space but would if that is really what she wanted. She said ok as if she didn't want to talk to me she would just tell me.
She started yawning so I told her it was getting late so I was going to bed so have a goodnite
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
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