WAW and 4 kids

[tryingtilDorR]

Sandi - thanks again for all your help. The 'balance' I am getting from your feedback is going to help me starting now/today. The new understanding is that there is probably a delicate balance required when you are dealing with an A, and you will never get it right if you let emotions drive your actions.

The balance is between setting boundaries and having backbone so that spouse doesn't lose all respect for you, but at the same time not badgering her about what she has done so that they feel worse and just want to run away. Initially, in order to prevent her from feeling so guilty that the guilt would be an insurmountable problem, I told her how much I loved her and would forgive her - now I realize that this was the WRONG approach. It made me look weak and she even mentioned it a couple of times I think. I should have just treated her with respect and let her know I could forgive what she did, but not gotten all overly-affectionate with her. Immediately detatching was what was needed. I have stopped that since then, but it has been 4 months!

The other complication was that we were doing the Retrouvaille program in the middle of all this. I knew that something was going on when we started, but I proved the EA when we were about a month into the program. This was really bad timing, since the program makes you focus on the R and each other as well as yourself, which was the LAST thing my W wanted to do and I think it pushed her away. She even mentioned somethign like this, that things got worse after we went to Retrouvaille.

Once I proved the EA was happening, she told me that after the initial weekend she tried to cut off the EA but after a short time realized how much she was 'attached' and then resumed it. She said something like that trying to do Retrouvaille with me (it goes on for about 10 weeks) made her realize she had 'feelings' for OM that she didn't realize she had, etc etc. I still think it was worth it because it helped me wake up and re-arrange my outlook on just about everything, but hte timing was really bad for her. It is the kind of thing I would love to do in the future again if possible if she ever was willing.


I am realizing that my anger over re-discovering the EA more recently has driven a lot of my actions over the past month and things aren't much better as a result. I think confronting her and telling her that I expected it to stop was the correct thing to do obviously, but some of the things I have done since haven't helped.

Looking back, just in case other LBSs are reading this, the big mistake I made was telling others about the EA before she had a chance to respond to what I found out after confronting her. I was so angry that she had been lying to me I couldn't think straight. I thought my marriage was over and would take a miracle to save, so I figured I didn't have anything to lose. Now I realize I did have a lot to lose based upon my reactions in those first weeks after uncovering the EA.

I do understand why LBH's get all up in the air over OM and how their ego has been hurt. I go get that! But what bothers me is how they quickly seem to forget that the problem was there before OM and now they want to blame the entire stitch on the A.

Again, I do recognize that things were bad before the OM and the issues in the M are what led her to do what she did. My obsession over the OM has been driven by the fact that I don't think M/R has a chance if OM is involved. Therefore, the choice is:

a) try to get her to dump the OM somehow some way, but LBS has no power/control over this directly. I did it by exposing what she was doing to people that I thought she would respect, etc but it kind of backfired as you point out. On the other hand, the pressure from her family has temporarily kept her here with us but not sure if that will be good enough over long haul.
b) lead her to make the choice to dump OM by trying to get her to see that she can be happy in her M

(B) is a tough sell, and the counter-intuitive thing is that the way you accomplish it is to detatch to the point where she isn't feeling 'smothered' and might possibly think that what she would be missing if she D is something that is worth fighting for.


Also, she slept in our room last night for some reason. I am thinking it was out of convenience because the room she had been using was 'busy' with kids and friends over visiting when she laid down last night. But, she also went to her IC yesterday and maybe she had a change of heart on this front but I am not getting my hopes up. The fact that she is in there has been a source of several arguments of late, but I am going to back off now.

I am looking forward to your 'dropping the rope' advice!

[tryingtilDorR]

Just thought about a few more things...

The thing that concerns me when a WAW is exposed of an EA is that they get to thinking what is the point of not going ahead and having a PA b/c her H has told everyone how horrible she is and now everyone thinks the worst about her, (including her own children), so she might as well live up to their poor image.

You have read her mind - she said this herself. In her case, she also mixes in the fact that if you call what she did an A she might have well just gone ahead and made it a PA since that is what she considereed an A to be (EA doesn't count)!

Focus on what kind of man you were when she fell in love with you. How far have you come from that person in the last few years?

Probably quite a ways in many respects. I also think she was unhappy with many things for many years and was just tolerating it. She says things now like the fact that we had our 4th kid was because God wanted to keep her busy with children since she wasn't thrilled about her marriage.

I have tried to take a clean slate approach and work on myself from the ground up. Not that I was a bad guy or anything, but I did let a lot of other things become important that shouldn't. I lost my job right when the EA started also and I think that created a crisis for both of us. She didn't view me as the stable breadwinner like she always had relied on me to be, and I realized that money/career weren't as important as I thougth because when it is taken away what you have left is your loved ones and family. It was kind of an epiphany for myself, and it intensified through my experience with Retrouvaille and IC as well as lots of reading. However the '180' I started to implement was happening as she spun up the EA and she developed resentment. Timing is everything! If only I had done it 6-9 months earlier.

BTW - I never spent a day not working, however, because they gave me a couple of months notice, and was able to find a few new jobs to choose from so the crisis didn't deepen in that area really. However, given my new outlook on everything I took a lower-paying position so that I would have more time for my family and could work at home when needed. She isn't thrilled about it, but if we ever R she will realize this is all good I hope.

[sandi2]

Man, you sure are sounding like you are beginning to see things a lot better! I am so glad. It takes somebody who has worn the shoes (so to speak) to be able to help people see from that POV. It also takes a man who is willing to "see" it a different way. Do you know that if you had been so stubborn and your mind set....I could not have caused you to see what you have. So, it took your willingness and cooperation.....and that's why I have a lot of hope for you.

It is hard enough to try to figure out how the opposite sex thinks even on a good day, right? Yes, there is a very delicate balance in dealing with a WAW in an EA. I noticed you used the expression "driven by emotions" and that is a good way to say it b/c as long as it is the emotions that are "guiding" us in our decision making, and emotions are dictating your reactions, and emotions are the foundation of "everything"....then there is going to be a big failure. That is why we tell the LBH to show a lot of self-respect and to work to have health self-esteem and to stop clinging...begging....being needing, desparate, etc. It is vital that he is attractive in EVERY way......physically, mentally and emotionally. She must be attracted to him, and one of the strongest sexual attractions is a strong sense of self-assurance and respect. A man who emotionally lets go of that rope he's tightly holding to that is tied to his wife.....he leaves her alone (basically) and stops hounding her and pestering her, and pressuring her. When she is finally free of his smothering, and she has the space & time to work through her issues of the MR and the OM.....and the craziness she's experiencing, then the M will stand a much greater chance of surviving this crises. In the meantime, you are staying active and continuing your self-improvements and GAL. You do not show anger, jealousy, or those types of negaitve feelings. You are in control of "your" destiny and you cannot control hers. You hope that she will come to her senses before she makes some stupid mistake that will change everyone's life.....but you do not try to "talk" to her about it or blackmair her.....or use any other type of pressure technique. When you are at home, you are busy spending precious time with your children or throwing yourself into whatever activity that is going on around the place with a "fun" attitude (showing your W that you are the greatest person in the world to be around). BTW....you do not flirt with other women and you don't try to make your W jealous. You do not date others while legally M. Just wanted to throw that in while I was thinking about it.

You have amazed me how much you are grasping about all of this, now. I know you feel that a lot of time has gone by and you may be worried that it is too late, but I don't think it is or she would be packing her things. Things can turn around in a matter of a few days.......and I tell you that to give you hope, but at the same time, I don't want you to start looking at your watch wondering when she's going to snap out of it. It still takes time, but I have seen things right here on this board turn around in a stitch. In fact....."your" attitude is a good example of how people can change their POV in a matter of hours.

I'm sorry about the class, but I'm sure you can see where the timing was about as bad as it could be. Under the circumstances, it was really "hurting" the stitch more.

I'm glad to know you understand about her "addiction" to the EA. It is just like a very strong drug. I had no idea that sheer will power and God's help would have to get me through my own EA. Every night I would come to this board and red and type until I would be ready to fall asleep. It was the only way I could make it. I don't know how other women pull through it without this support.

Also, she slept in our room last night for some reason. I am thinking it was out of convenience because the room she had been using was 'busy' with kids and friends over visiting when she laid down last night. But, she also went to her IC yesterday and maybe she had a change of heart on this front but I am not getting my hopes up. The fact that she is in there has been a source of several arguments of late, but I am going to back off now.

While I'm thinking about this, let me warn you to not be surprised if she if very stand-offish today since she "had" to sleep in your bed last night. She will be careful that you did not get the wrong idea about why she stayed in your bed. So, don't be upset or frustrated if she seems extra cool tonight. In fact, you may kind of be careful about showing "too much" excitement in your resolve to be upbeat b/c she may interpret it to mean you think the "sex is on"..... Women!! (I know that's what you are thinking..lol)

Probably quite a ways in many respects. I also think she was unhappy with many things for many years and was just tolerating it. She says things now like the fact that we had our 4th kid was because God wanted to keep her busy with children since she wasn't thrilled about her marriage.

Probably quite a ways in many respects. I also think she was unhappy with many things for many years and was just tolerating it. She says things now like the fact that we had our 4th kid was because God wanted to keep her busy with children since she wasn't thrilled about her marriage.

WAW's rewrite their history. Don't let this bother you too much. My H was also a good man......a very good man, but I made him out to be the "bad guy" in our stitch. You losing your job may have been the straw that broke the camel's back like the extra stress we had right before I began playing the Internet games that led to me meeting OM. It all keeps building and this is like an "escape" to her. In my case....I "knew" I was having an affair of the heart, but I am kind of wondering if your W is that much in denial when she keeps insisting that they are "friends" and she's not having an A. Of course, some think you have to have the physical act f sex for it to be counted as a real A.

Don't keep looking at the stitch as if it is too late. It is NOT too late until she is LEGALLY M to another man.

Talk to you later,
Sandi

[tryingtilDorR]

I know you feel that a lot of time has gone by and you may be worried that it is too late, but I don't think it is or she would be packing her things. Things can turn around in a matter of a few days.......

I know it is a marathon, not a sprint, but an LBS can't help but feeling pressure at times and getting impatient. I try to remind myself that we have been together for a quarter of a century so even a couple of years of bad times is worth it if we stay together in the end.

I know you feel that a lot of time has gone by and you may be worried that it is too late, but I don't think it is or she would be packing her things. Things can turn around in a matter of a few days.......

Yes - if I could rewrite some history I would have used the time better, but it is water under the bridge. At the end of the day, it has been 4 months since the EA was discovered/busted the first time. Leaving is something she has a hard time figuring out how to do as you suggest. When I re-discovered the EA a month ago she made a comment about leaving at the end of the summer once the kids are back in school. She hasn't mentioned it since, however, and I am wondering what she plans to do. That is why these next 6 weeks are critical in my eyes.

you may kind of be careful about showing "too much" excitement in your resolve to be upbeat b/c she may interpret it to mean you think the "sex is on".....

I've pretty much given up on that for now - it has been 8 months (since EA started) since she has let me lay a finger on her! I agree however that she may react as you say to any upbeat mood I may be in. Actually, if she does permanently come back to our bed (unlikely) I won't say anything about it and try to maintain an even attitude so that she doesn't notice much change (except arguments about why she is in the other room will stop).

I "knew" I was having an affair of the heart, but I am kind of wondering if your W is that much in denial when she keeps insisting that they are "friends" and she's not having an A. Of course, some think you have to have the physical act f sex for it to be counted as a real A.

She knows it is wrong and had admitted that she had 'feelings' for this person. However, I think she later regrets making these statements because she will still make the other argument that an EA is not an A and isn't considered betraying wedding vows. It is her twisted way of protecting herself from blame/wrongdoing I realize so I have stopped arguing with her about it, because I know she knows the truth about all this - she just doesn't feel like admitting it to me or others. I just make sure she knows I am clear on the fact that I think it is wrong - believe me she understands where I sit on the issue!

[sandi2]

Good responses to everything. Let me add something to this statement you made:

She knows it is wrong and had admitted that she had 'feelings' for this person. However, I think she later regrets making these statements because she will still make the other argument that an EA is not an A and isn't considered betraying wedding vows. It is her twisted way of protecting herself from blame/wrongdoing I realize so I have stopped arguing with her about it, because I know she knows the truth about all this - she just doesn't feel like admitting it to me or others. I just make sure she knows I am clear on the fact that I think it is wrong - believe me she understands where I sit on the issue!

She was in deep denial about what her real "feelings" for the OM was. When it was pointed out to her that she was in an A.....she seemed shocked and even argured that it was NOT an A but a friendship. After the exposure and the pressure from you and her family began to affect her, then she really regretted saying anything at all (even under your pressure) about her feelings for OM...b/c of the reaction from everyone. Nobody else will step up to protect her--so she MUST protect herself, which is only normal for her to do that. But to you, it does seem "twisted" b/c none of it seems logical and it is not morally right.

I am very glad you have stopped arguring with her over this issue b/c it was getting you nowhere except deeper in a M grave. Yes, she knows the truth....in her heart, but of course she doesn't want to "admit" it to others. She feels that her entire world has attacked her and she's all along....except for the OM (who, of course, supports her....and that's not good). When everyone in her world is attacking her and she thinks they are all against her, where do you think she will turn?? Exactly! Doesn't her parents see that? All of her friends, family, and "you" need to let off of her or she is quickly going to the next level in this A. Listen to me when I tell you that I was not at all serious about "my OM" until my H blew up at me for contacting him. He was yelling at me and I had never seen him that angry before. That is when I immediately went to the next level. My OM was soooo supportive and loving and knew all the sweet comforting words to say to me. So of course I leaned on OM b/c he was my only friend in the world (or so I felt). You don't want this to happen to your W, but I am concerned that b/c of the exposure so quickly and the fact her children know (which is a huge, huge embarrassment for her)plus the pressure from her parents is more than she can deal with. I'm concerned that it will push her straight into OM's arms. I hope you can plead with her parents to stop what they are doing b/c it is making the stitch much worse than if they would let up on her. (BTW, do not tell your W that you tried to get her parents to back off. Don't say anymore to her about the results of this exposure.)

No, it does not mean her parents (or anyone) has to support what she's done......but just let-up with their persecution. She feels as if she's had a trial, been judged, and now percecuted--without fair representation. That is why she has to come to her own defense......can you see that from her POV? It doesn't make her case--right, but try to see it from that angle.

Yes, she knows very well where you "sit" on the subject as well as she knows where her family sits. But look, it is not necessary for you to repeatedly bring this to her attention. She "gets it", okay? Everytime you feel like you will explode if you don't mention your "stand" on this fact, you must keep your mouth shut. (I have the same nature, so I know how you feel.) I know from experience in many matters over the years that it will lead to a deeper level of resentment and more problems everytime. You have to stop with R talks at this point in the stitch! You may wonder how it will ever be resolved if it is not discussed. Have you not talked about everyting that could be said? I bet you have. Now it is time to say nothing futher and let her do some personal work on her issues. Just b/c there is not a lot of verbal words floating around in the air does not mean no work is getting done. In fact, many times the less said......the more actions are seen! Attitudes speak much, much louder than words ever did! Let her see your better attitude and your quiet actions.

When you stop having an attitude about her sleeping in the other room......and trust me.....she "knows" you have an attitude problem, then that will be the first big step. A wife can read that attitude her H has a mile off. There is just something about a H having "that" attitude where sex is concerned that she can read like a book. She finds it very ironic that you would be angry at her for sleeping in the other room when you were ready to kick her out of the house. Remember? You invited her to leave if she couldn't stop ALL contact with OM. She could not make that promise, so she did the right thing and S from you & and the intimacy of your bed and went to another bedroom. That was what she should have done. But, then "you" get this ATTITUDE that you are her HUSBAND and sull up b/c she's not sleeping with you. Don't get that hurt, defensive, or sulled attitude that H's get when their W's are not giving them sex! Since she's not in the bed with you where you can literally flop over on your side with your back to her......this is your way to do it in "attitude". Know what I mean?

Look, how can you dare have an attitude about anything after telling her to leave? I don't see where you can do that if the two of you are S but just staying under the same roof. The problem here is the fact that YOU have not looked at the picture as being a separated couple abiding under the same roof at the end of the day. YOU are still seeing the two of you as a M couple who should be sharing the same bed. YOU see this as a "family unit" that should be doing all these special family times together, etc. Listen, she feels that you basically kicked her out, but instead of leaving the house, she just left your private bedroom and moved to another room. You got mad when she said she was doing it for the kids. What did you want her to say under the circumstances? Oh, never mind, I KNOW what you wanted her to say, but you "forced" this situation on her and she was not mentally prepared to give you that answer you "wanted" to hear at that time. Be thankful that she did stay for the sake of the kids. Do you have ANY idea how many women leave their kids with the H and move out of the house? I give her a lot of credit for staying b/c it must be hell for her to live there with you and knowing her kids have heard about the EA and taking all that stuff from her parents. I could not have done it! So, I strongly suggest you lay off the lady and get over your "problem" of her sleeping in the next room, since you pushed her in there. I can tell you that if you were my H, no way in hell would I be going back into your arms for a mighty, mighty long time. She has a tremdous hurt to get over. You think you felt betrayed b/c of her EA?? How do you think "she" feels about how you have treated her by betraying the privacy between the two of you where the M problems lay? You went and told everyone! If you had been addicted to porn, would you have wanted her to annoucne that to your world and give everyone "deatails" about your activity with the porn? I don't think so! You would have been embarrassed and shamed. And what if your kids knew? What if they "overheard" it being discussed and now they think daddy is dirt. What if your parents were on your back and telling you that they disowned you b/c of your porn addiction? You don't have to use porn.....substitute any other addiction in its place (maybe even sexual addiction) and then see if you can start to imagine how you have made the woman you vowed to "cherish" in sickness and in health.....feel. If she had turned to a "bottle" or "drugs" instead of OM....would it have made you feel better? My guess is that it would have. Know why? B/c your male ego would not have been affected if she had chose to drink or take drugs instead of her attention being on another man. Let's get down to the knitty-gritty here, okay? The bottom line to this whole thing about your FEELINGS, your exposure of her EA......your attitude about her in the other bedrooom.......EVERYTHING has to do with the fact that your male pride has had a kick in the b@lls. Now that is it, isn't it? I know it is. I've been around too long to not know. There is one advantage to getting older and that is the fact that one does getting a little wiser.

Men and women are as different as night and day. If you never read John Gray's books, then you need to. They are easy reads and good. "Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars" (or visa-versa, can't remember the title) is the one to start out with. Where the genders go wrong is when we expect our S to "think" like we do. It is physically impossible and it has been proven by science! Baby boys have had their brains examined and compared to baby girls and guess what? Yep, they are "DIFFERENT". However, all their lives, boys & girls expect the other to think and act like they do..... It's funny.

I wish I had some kind of usser name to call you other than "tryingtildorR".....that's too long (lol). Just like to make it more personal. Anyway, if you will drop your hold on her.....you know, like in "dropping the rope" that the DR book describes, then it would take a tremdous amount of pressure off her and you would focus on yourself and GAL. Then the R could start to mend. But I promise you this....if you chose not to back off and drop the rope, then she will leave and D you. She might anyway after all that has happened to her and I think that is tragic b/c it never had to get to this place. But anyway, hopefully everyone will back off and she will not go to the next level in the A and have a PA. Right now, she's thinking it wouldn't make any difference since her parents have disowned her and her H has asked her to leave and her kids think she is a horrible mother. The OM is all she has (in her way of thinking). No, don't apologize any more to her! You have already done that and if you say it again, it will make you appear weak. The reason I have brought this up "again" is b/c I want you to throughly understand the extent of the damage you have caused in this stitch just since you discovered the EA. In the beginning, you blamed her and the OM with everything and you thought you were being justified by the fact you exposed the A. I saw what you posted to other men on their threads. Now what if a Newcomer goes and reads those messages and does what you did and messes "his" stitch up in the same way? That is why I get upset when I read all these messages between the LBH's telling each other to go expose, etc. Like I said previously, there is a time and there are cases where exposure is necessary......but not in 24 hours of discovering she's made contact with OM and is emotionally connected to him. At that point, it is still a private matter between the married couple and they should try to work it out without dragging family and friends into their personal life. That is my POV on the matter. So, not to keep banging you over the head with a 2x4....b/c you do see it now, but part of this is in case other Newcomers to the board reads this post and hopefully they will see where a man needs to wait and at least give his wife time to drop the OM and withdraw from the EA. That withdrawal is like any other "addiction" and it is painful and it takes a long time to get over. So, expect the wait.

I am so pleased with your turn-around in your thinking. I really hope that your attitude and actions will follow and that you start seeing positive results soon. But if you don't see "anything", please.....please don't get down and want to give up. You see, so many men say they are going to drop the rope on their wife and move on and GAL...yada, yada. But...when the W does not make any signs of changes, THEN the man gets all upset over it. Well, that clearly shows that he DID NOT drop "anything". He's not even detached.

It is hard. There's no denying that! Thank God for this DB board and the free support Michele provides for the public. As I have said many times and will continue to tell Newcomers....this board saved my M and it can help you know what you need to do. If the M is "not" saved, you can be a survivor and move on in a healthy way. Focus on you and how you can live your life. Stay away from talking R with W. Try to keep a PMA around her and the kids. BTW, have "you" talked to the kids who know about the EA? Did she discuss it with them after she sought advise from the C? I can't imagine the impact it must have had on them.....and her. It needs to be handled in a very delicate way and I don't think young children should be told if they haven't heard somethig so far, b/c they can't deal with it.

Hope you have a good day. You have really started in the right direction now.

Take care,
Sandi

[tryingtilDorR]

Sandi - once again - thanks for your brutal honesty! Turning the exposure issue around to myself is pretty effective way of getting the point accross.

A couple of background points realted to 'exposure' in my sitch are that my MIL/SIL/BIL as well as my S17 all new *something* was going on. S17 saw how she was sneaking around to talk on her phone and was asking lots of questions. MIL/SIL thought her 'friendship' with this OM was wrong before I did - she had invited him to some events. My MIL/SIL pleaded with me to get in the middle of that R and not let it continue, but I thought they were overreacting. Therefore, by the time I actually had my own suspicions and confirmed it I also let MIL/SIL know I had proof. They, as well as I, already knew it was happening so the way I was looking at it it wasn't doing any more harm, and they were very supportive and I reached out to them when I was in a crisis really. Thinking now with a cool head I shouldn't have said anything until W had a chcance to respond at least.

Now, that said, I didn't need to tell a couple of her close friends as well, who had no idea about what was going on with us. That truly backfired since it made her reach out to a couple more friends whom she never would have told that are not friends to the M neccessarily (her divorced friend for example).

Also, obviously the resentment she built up was the other downside as you point out.

As far as pressure from others, I talked to the ILs about 2 months ago about this and they agreed to drop the issue for now, although my MIL had a relapse recently and laid into her, but all in all they have left her alone.

As far as sleeping in the other room - the arguments are around *why* she is there, not the fact that she IS there. The reason *why* in my mind is because she is continuing her EA which makes me angry, but I am letting go to some extent now as you can see.

It turns out that she is back in our room now for 2 nights in a row. I haven't said a word about it and am just observing at this point.

More later...gotta run.

[sandi2]

Okay, well see--you did not tell all of that when you posted before, or else I must have missed that information somewhere. You talked as though nobody knew anything until "you" told them what was going on. That makes a huge difference in the fact they already knew or had a suspicion something was wrong. So, the fact you "confirmed" thoses suspicions is not like you hit them with a ton of bricks they didn't see coming. So, okay, maybe we are on the same page now. That's why I tell a lot of people that the more information they give us, the better we can help.

I talked to the ILs about 2 months ago about this and they agreed to drop the issue for now, although my MIL had a relapse recently and laid into her, but all in all they have left her alone.

That's good. I can understand your MIL, b/c if it was "my" daughter.....I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut!! We humans can't seem to get past the idea that we can "force" another person to stop doing something we feel is wrong. They are not going to base their actions on our approval of them......at least not for long.

I understand your point of "why" your W is sleeping in the other room, but what I'm hoping that you will see is that the two of you are calling yourself separated......am I correct there? "If" you are going to be S, then you need to behave like it and to "think" like it and stop wondering if she's going to "show up" at your bedroom door every night. Also, realize that the argument of "why" she's in the other room will keep the stitch turned inside-out and it will not be the tool that stops her from the contact with OM. That is what you have to look at.

Later,
Sandi

[tryingtilDorR]

You have to stop with R talks at this point in the stitch! You may wonder how it will ever be resolved if it is not discussed. Have you not talked about everyting that could be said? I bet you have. Now it is time to say nothing futher and let her do some personal work on her issues. Just b/c there is not a lot of verbal words floating around in the air does not mean no work is getting done. In fact, many times the less said......the more actions are seen! Attitudes speak much, much louder than words ever did! Let her see your better attitude and your quiet actions.

Yes, we have talked about just about everything. There really isn't more to say. I thought we were at that point a while a go but when I rediscovered the EA it stirred the pot again. Now things are quieting down and I am feeling more at peace.

She finds it very ironic that you would be angry at her for sleeping in the other room when you were ready to kick her out of the house. Remember? You invited her to leave if she couldn't stop ALL contact with OM. She could not make that promise, so she did the right thing and S from you & and the intimacy of your bed and went to another bedroom. That was what she should have done. But, then "you" get this ATTITUDE that you are her HUSBAND and sull up b/c she's not sleeping with you.

This has been a complicated issue primarily because I initiated it when I re-discovered the EA. You are correct - I told her to LEAVE if she couldn't stop talking to OM, and her compromise was to move into another room. Since then, after my anger had subsided, I am realizing that I can't control anything she does when it comes to OM (something I supposedly knew before, but now I REALLY know).

The significance of sleeping in the same room is one of 'distance' and has nothing to do with sex. She had told me during a heated argument that she would never have sex with ME for the rest of her life. While I don't believe she has totally convinced herself of that I know it isn't going to happen any time soon given the situation.

if you will drop your hold on her.....you know, like in "dropping the rope" that the DR book describes, then it would take a tremdous amount of pressure off her and you would focus on yourself and GAL. Then the R could start to mend. But I promise you this....if you chose not to back off and drop the rope, then she will leave and D you.

I know this is so true. Right now I am feeling like I am in a better position to move to this state than I have felt in the past. I will focus my posts on this goal as the days move on.

BTW, have "you" talked to the kids who know about the EA? Did she discuss it with them after she sought advise from the C? I can't imagine the impact it must have had on them.....and her. It needs to be handled in a very delicate way and I don't think young children should be told if they haven't heard somethig so far, b/c they can't deal with it.

Yes I have. W got a lot of advice from IC about how to discuss with kids since she kenw they had overheard some arguments between us. S17 didn't say much to me but he had some words for W when she discussed it with him. W and I both talked to D15. She explained it to both of them as a situation where she had a friendship that went a little too far and Dad got really mad. D15 was pretty upset with W - she told her things like "you shouldn't have friendships with other men - you are married!", "Dad loves you and you don't love him and aren't trying". It really broke my heart listening to D15 say these things - she was so upset. My W just sat there with no emotion and listened, but in the coming days was very depressed. This happened about 3 months ago. This is the most tragic thing of all.

I understand your point of "why" your W is sleeping in the other room, but what I'm hoping that you will see is that the two of you are calling yourself separated......am I correct there? "If" you are going to be S, then you need to behave like it and to "think" like it and stop wondering if she's going to "show up" at your bedroom door every night.

I guess we are semi-separated? We have a platonic relationship where we are workign together as co-parents. OThewise she doesn't make any attempts to communicate with me directly and otherwise acts like we are D. Why she has come back and slept in our bed the last 2 nights is a mystery to me given the situation, however. As a result I am not reading much into it ... yet.

[tryingtilDorR]

Darkness Descends ...

[tryingtilDorR]

Darkness Descends ... (accidentally posted too early above)

Sandi told me that digging around trying to get details on OM's criminal record in preparation for a possible restraining oder (if she leaves) would send W straight to him and she was right. She confronted me about it and was angry as I had mentioned earlier, but over the weekend I found out that she went straight to OM at the same time and has been talking to him since about the whole thing. She had figured it out by snooping in my email and found a message I sent to a law enforcement friend asking him if he could get information.

She immediately contacted OM and said that this friend might be doing something illegal to get his criminal records, so watch out, etc etc.

So, Sandi, you are right - I gave her and OM something to work on together. She has started digging up info from my email in general it appears. She talked about how she was gathering information about whether or not I was monitoring her because it could be against the law, considered an invasion of privacy, etc etc. She also mentioned that some of the accusing text messages I have sent her over the months could be considered mental abuse and that she wishes she would have saved them. I think her IC and the OM are the ones giving her these ideas. I need to be careful. She may be trying to build up some sort of case to throw me out of our house.

We had a long R talk yesterday - not good. She is emotionally invested enough to have these conversations which is interesting, but she sat there for about an hour arguing with me about why M can't work (her biggest justification is that it was bad before, so it can bever be good) and more denials about her having an EA but that she can talk to who she wants - what a mess.

The sad thing for me about all this was that I feel like I had really turned a corner recently and was feeling more detached since I finally 'got it' that I had no power over her actions, and had dropped my interest in pursuing anything regarding OM, etc. or trying to prove EA activity any longer.