WAW and 4 kids

[sandi2]

Well, ready for more?

These are some quotes you made on other people's threads.

Therefore, I would encourage you to monitor her if you are pretty sure of what is going on (your gut is usually correct on this). You can then decide how to use the information. In The reality of it all made me realize that I don't want to settle for being treated this way.

If the LBH is suspicious and needs to find out if there is an OP, I can understand that, but at the same time....when the snooping starts, it is hard to stop (based on what other LBS have shared). I would think that it is torment to read messages from WAW to OP. You said that it made you realize you didn't want to settle for being treated this way......are you saying that finding out she had OM made you realize that? I believe that is really sad that it took such a drastic ordeal for you to see that you needed to change. I don't think it was a matter of you not being "treated that way" as much as "that point in time" was when you started the self improvements.

but in the case of her immediate family it was probably the right thing to do since the pressure and disapproval from them in this suituation has probably helped more than hurt.

I don't think I agree. She may temporarily appear to stop the EA, but if she's a true WAW, and especially if she's in MLC..... then I have doubts that the "control" the family is trying to use to "pressure" her will work. She will simply resort to being more "secretive".

She told me that while every situation is different and outcomes cannot be predicted, the situations she has witnessed where the M was saved (which seemed like a miracle in many cases) ALL only happened in situations where the LBS successfully detatched completely and let go, and got to a place where they were doing it completely for THEMSELF and not for the R or W.

I AGREE 100%. But it has to be done in the right way and very few LBH's "get it" for quite some time. I hope you can "get it" and it will be successful. I think you are at least seeing the phase where you've "been" and where you are "now". That is good that you can do that.

If I had only kept it bewteen her and I she probably wouldn't have done much except lie some more about it going forward. I imagine in most cases exposure and keeping it between spouses is the right course of action.

"Expose or not to expose" has been an ongoing subject on the board. I have very personal feelings as a former WAW.....but it took me reading all of Puppy's old thread before I could see from his POV. In his case, yes--I think he needed to do what he did. But not in all cases do I think exposure should be done. In my case, it would have been the end of everything. I'm not kidding one bit. I am not sure what drastic actions I would have done. But, I am glad that it never happened. I do not believe that exposure should be done to "pressure" the WAW to be good and stop the EA. That is "shame" or "control" and I do not think most WAW's would want to fall into the arms of a man that EXPOSED her to the world. Her family and friends ARE her world. She is "still" his wife and he should try to protect her as long as he can. Maybe this sounds rather ironic to a LBH, but even a WW needs protection when she is in a crises. I do not see exposure as protection! I think that a man and wife should keep private things in their R....private--as long as possible--and use the exposure as a last resort (such as in Puppy's case). As I said, there are some cases where it has to be done. I just feel that some LBH's are too quick in doing the exposure as a "control" method.

In the end she drifted back to the EA, but if I hadn't exposed it when I did and at least slowed it down it would have evolved to a PA very quickly.

You shamed her before her world and she felt a terrible guilt (and she should have), however......it will not stop her! It slowed her down b/c of the shame, but I don't think the exposure will stop her. What does she have to lose now? If I had been exposed, the first thing I would have done was leave town and go straight to the OM. When that didn't work out.....I hate to think what I might have done--in the frame of mind I was in at the time.

While I am sad that my kids were exposed to the sordid mess, at least it made her consider her behavior in the light of the real world in front of the people she loves (like my in-laws and some of our closest friends).

Yeah, I'm sad your kids know, too! She won't win the "Mother of the Year" award, will she? Does that make you feel better? See, I could really beat a LBH up when he does something like this b/c I feel that it is more revenge than anything else, and even though she is wrong to get emotionally involved with another man......I don't think you did the right thing by not protecting your wife while she is in this state of mind. Her R with her children may be never be the same after this. I know.....you are thinking that "she" ruined it...not you. Again, it is how a person sees it, and I see it from the POV of a WAW......and that is what "she" is. She says that she is there for "the kids".....and I say that they are the only ones she feels she has a reason to stay. As a mother, I think I know how badly it hurts her for her children to know about her EA. I pray it does not backfire on you.

Now she sleeps in the other room every night, but tries to do it discreetly so that it isn't obvious to our kids.

W says she sleeps better in there, but I know it is a way for her to maintain distance really, and it and the rest of our platonic relationship is driving me nuts!

You sound as if you are whining--as only a LBH can do. You were expecting her to want to sleep with the man who exposed her EA to her world?? Really! This is the point I was trying to make. You LBH's amaze me! Of course she is trying to be discreet. Doesn't that tell you that she "cares" what the kids think? You still don't "get it". She is in a crises mode and you have not protected her. What would you do if she had a serious mental problem? Would you protect her then? Maybe that is not the best illustration in the world, but I'm trying to get you to see that she is not her "normal" self.

I have doing DB for several months and do my best to avoid R talks whenever I can, except the occasional argument about the OM and the EA.

Of course there will be "arguments"....if you discuss the OM! You certainly are not going to agree about him! Do not talk about OM. If she tries to mention his name or refer to him....tell her you are not prepared to discuss him right now....and then leave the room or whatever to stop the discussion. The reason is--that both of you are not in the "right place" emotionally and it will tear you apart. Yes, at some point it will be discussed, but you can wait until the time is right. You will know when it is right, and it won't be when you are mad.

However, there hasn't been much positive movement in my situation either.

It usually is a long road. I think I may have been the exception, but mine was not that short, either. It takes a lot of love and strength. I did not feel much of either--and before it was over, I think my H just about gave up hope......but that was when he finally let go and backed away to give me space and time to work it out. And.....I did.

Lately she has toned down the contact with OM but it is still there. My boundary was no more contact EVER, and she then chose to sleep in another room because she could not promise no contact ever

So, do you not take any responsibility in the fact that she's sleeping in another room? You think it all has to do with the fact she can't promise never to contact OM? I think you are deceiving yourself. Stop blaming "everything" on OM. Yes, a GREAT deal has to do with her confused feelings in this MLC (if she is in one) and her fantasy of OM........but you have to accept your breakdown in the M.

she hasn't been 'flaunting' the fact that she had/has an EA [/quote[quote]](she has trouble even calling it an A)

You see, "if" she had been flaunting the EA.....then I may have agreed about the exposure. But, to a degree, I think she is in denial about her EA b/c of all the excuses she gives and the fact that she was not flaunting it. If she had been.....then you would have had a horrible problem for sure!

is it worth it to leave and have to work more? So far the answer seems NO

This is just part of a sentence, but I'm trying to save space You see, it is much easier in the WAW's mind to start an entire "new" R than to stay and work on the old R that is "dead".

but if I am doing it to get her to face the edge of the cliff and make a decision I am being manipulative???

Very much so.

However, if she is going down that road and wants to file I would want to try to negotiate with her. However, I think I will let her make the first move on this if she ever does since, after all, she wants out not me.

The fact that she has done nothing about filing for a D should tell you something! Stop pushing the issue. Just you thinking about it sends out signals to her. You almost sound impatient and want her to go on and get it over with. She picks up on that attitude. Yes, let her make the next move. Do nothing about filing......leave "everything" to her about a divorce. The only thing is to make sure you and the kids are "protected" if she gets really crazy. Know what I mean? Don't think I'm telling you to stick your head in the sand....I'm saying to make her have to do the decision making and the going to the lawyer and filing, etc. Don't do her any favors by being the "first" to make a step toward the courtroom.

I was almost 'relieved' when I confirmed it since it explained so many things.

But don't you see, it almost sounds as if "now" you can blame the other guy with the break-up of the R with your W. Stop doing that!! You don't get off scott free. The trouble was there before the OM. I keep saying that b/c I want you to get that. It is too easy to blame somebody else for the fault. LBH's almost get to sounding as if they are near "perfect" when they start blaming the W for her A and the OM for the breakdown of the M. Hummmmmmm

Well, I may have run you off after all of this! Believe it or not....I have never left several posts in a row like I have done this evening. But now I have made a dent (lol) and maybe...maybe I won't be as long winded next time....but don't promise.

I talk very plain to LBH's b/c I care.....and I hope you know that. If I didn't care about you and your W....I would not have spent my evening on this computer with your stitch. I do pray that you can endure this horrible crises that both of you are going through. I know it seems awful unfair to you, but I hope you will also believe me when I say that she is not happy and she's going through something she doesn't understand. Her mind is in a turmoil and she's fogged out. I'm afraid it may get worse, so I hope you are in it for the long haul. We are here to support you as long as you will listen and try to understand. There are many other LBH's here on the board, and all of you can talk to each other and feel each other's pain.....but there aren't too many of us WAW's here to tell you just how it "really" is.

Take care,
Sandi