WAW and 4 kids

[tryingtilDorR]

Sandi - thanks for your help - this is great and much appreciated. Even though I feel like I have a lot of information, some times it helps to get a reality check.

Here are some responses:

You probably realize now that this was the "true" beginning of the downfall of your R. If you read Michelle's WAW symptoms, you'll see where the W complains about being unhappy but the H doesn't "listen" or he doesn't do anything about it.

Yes I totally understand this now and have told her many many times that I was an idiot for not doing anything earlier! I told her I kind of lost myself in my own oblivion (career, other activities, kids, etc).

Unfortunately, by the time the couple gets to MC, the W has, usually, emotionally divorced her H and she feels it is too late. That is the same reason that Retrouvaille did not work for her.

Yep, totally agree here too.

Does this mean that you had been after her to confess her involvement with somebody else?

Yes I had suspected something for a few months based upon her increased 'distance' and the fact that she was spending lots of time on phone and hiding stuff that she never would before. Therefore I had been asking her repeatedly what was going on.

Were you "trying" to catch her or was it an accident?

I tried, but it only took one day to catch her so I didn't do it very long.

Before I go any farther, let me say that none of the "trouble" is about OM. I know "you" think it is, but the trouble was there before OM came on the scene. He is the result of the trouble.

I recognize this also and have acknowledged this to her as well. This is one of the reasons I give her for being able to forgive what she has done, because both of us contributed to a bad marriage that led her to this place, although she did ultimately make the choice on her own.

You are making him an "issue" and he will become a larger issue if you do not apply the DB principles correctly in appropriate time. That is what I hope we can help you with here on the board.

Lately I have been trying to use the fact that I know I can't control her behavior to not even ask about the guy or bring it up. I know it doesn't help to talk about him.

However, it does not have to be the deal breaker, and you can maintain your self-respect if you decide you want to be this new, strong man (not that you weren't) and don't allow the stitch to take it away.

Great advice - I will keep this top-of-mind.



Now you are beginning to see. No, you cannot control her and that is very tough for a lot of H's to accept. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way....b/c I was taught in very old fashion, traditional ways of the roles each partner has. So, I think I understand how that is frustrating for a H.

I think the key variable, however, is whether or not they are involved in OP

Do you still believe that now?

I am so glad that you gave up the snooping and trying to "police" her b/c it won't stop her from contacting OM. I know that it only caused me to become more sneaky and take more risks at my job, etc. Just don't allow her to contact him in your presence b/c that is showing huge disrespect and you "can" control that. That is where you need to draw a boundary and tell her that you do not know how long you can stay in the same house with anyone who would show that kind of disrespect. (Wording is everything!....Don't tell her she "can't" do something b/c she'll show you that she can.)

She has said that she wants to go back to how it was 'before' where we were ships passing in the night and otherwise acted like roomates to some extent. I told her that is not the type of relationship I want anymore and have made all of these changes to remedy that, but she just isn't interested (due in large part to OM I believe).

While I don't believe the OM is the source of our problems, I view it as a huge barrier to her turning around her attitude toward me or the M. Even with the OM gone it might not happen, but I know with OM in the picture it will never happen it seems. This has been my biggest issue with the whole thing all along. I have viewed it as this initial, insurmountable barrier that prevented all hope about the M. I have reacted by trying to 'bully' her into stopping it with some success but overall we still aren't in good shape as far as M is concerned (it is worse - now she sleeps in another room and didn't before!). Initially I was trying to prove it existed because she wouldn't admit it and I figured we had to acknowledge this problem in order to deal with it.

Do not show her any physical affection....period!! If she makes the first move to show you affection, then you can very carefully respond (a tiny bit), but don't over-do b/c she would not be ready! I can promise you that any physical affection is about the last thing she could handle at this moment.

I had been doing things like hugging her goodnight and things like that but she complained about it, which makes sense given what you are saying! I eventually backed off of that also.

If she is valuable enough to you.....then you will stick it out and be the man you need to be and will either become so attractive to her that you will outshine the OM and reconcile......or you will be able to move on without her (if she makes those decisions).

More great advice - I need to remember this.

I understand that "you" think this will matter to her b/c of who and what she used to be......but trust me, she is NOT that woman any longer and she WILL chose OM over family--and they can disown her all day long and it won't stop her. They are tying to "control" her also, and it will not work! Oh, and the fact that they are supportive of you?......only makes her more angry. It would be to your best interest if they did not say anything to her about "you" b/c it will make her worse. I know you don't understand it. It is all part of her WAW rebellion. It is part of her symptoms.

All so true - she is angry at me for 'turning her family against her' and the fact that her image has been tarnished with them. I have an agreement with her family that we won't bug her about this stuff, although my MIL laid into her recently. Their obvious concern is for our kids and that she shoudln't trade her 'happiness' for the happiness of 5 others.

The friends that do not support her?......She will finally drop them and find somebody new who does support her. Dropping old friends and finding new ones is part of the scene of a WAW.

So true - she has less contact with old friends and now confides daily in a divorced friend who has been happily remarried for 10 years. They used to talk every couple of months (she lives 2 hours away) but now they talk every day. She gets all kinds of advice from her, not much of it is good for M.

Okay.....it is fine for "you" to remember your vows and all that stuff about the rings, etc. But, don't expect her to. Don't say a word about vows, rings, wedding pictures, nothing like that....or you will make matters much, much worse. It has the "opposite" effect that you hope--when making any statements regarding this subject. Don't bring up any memories about the wedding or honeymoon. Don't even say anything about the "kid's sake". This sounds terrible, but I can tell you that she will resent you like you couldn't believe! It truly makes the WAW much worse in all of her symptoms.

It seems so bizzarre - I guess its because these are the things that she is 'fighting against' and trying to convince herself that they don't matter (or she already has but doesn't want to rethink the decision).

But you see, she looks at it like.....you had a chance but you didn't get off your butt and do anything about it until the OM showed up. Do you see that? Be honest. Did you do "ANYTHING" until you found out about him? According to your own posts, you didn't. That is what she's angry about. You waited until she was through, empty, dried up, emotionally dead on the inside and then---she found somebody who would pay attention to her. THEN you woke up and decided that you better put forth a little effort into this MR. Again...I'm saying what she is thinking. Don't want it to sound like I am being mean to you, but trying to get you to see from her POV as best I can.

No no you are totally correct. She has told me this many times herself. She says things like "why didn't you do xxxxx over the past 10 years?" and "if you didn't do it before don't do it now!"



Thanks for yoru time Sandi - your help is invaluable. BTW - how old were you when you had your A and went through your crisis? I can research on your old threads also.