You know, I'm not sure you did the wrong thing. What you were doing was helping you, but I'm not sure that it was getting you any closer to your goal. But today, you enforced your boundaries. I think the fact that he backed off of his usual might be an indication that it was a good thing. Maybe for once he is going to see what he is throwing away. I don't know what he will do next, but I am thinking it might be different that you are expecting. Be ready for anything!
Wow! You were so right Jeff! Got everything and anything today! Good, bad and ugly.
In short we spent maybe three hours in pretty intense discussions today. I`m glad of the DB advice to shut up and listen cos I managed to do a bit of that! Though I also did some unDB like being tearful(though only about the kids) and asking him if he felt attracted to me.
I know H is being careful not to get my hopes up("I don`t love you enough to go to the ends of the earth for you" " I shouldn`t have hugged you, I don`t feel like having sex with you") but my default mode is to be totally hopeful and optimistic so I`m gonna go cool down for a while and not throw myself at him.
Yes, after months of despondency I`m ready at the first ray of hope to jump in to the sunshine. I don`t want to make a fool of myself and watch that light blink out too soon.
Hmmm, turns out I was right not to jump too soon. H went out last night. Just said "I`m going out" I ask where to and he-eventually-tells me he`s going off to meet his cousins who`s wedding he attended yesterday.
He said a lot of stuff yesterday-yeah some of it may not be true but we explored his lack of emotional connection with me and that was enlightening though scary.
He says he doesn`t feel an emotional connection with me. But when I went through his family, and our children(he doesn`t appear to have friends) he says he doesn`t have an emotional connection with them either. I couldn`t believe it when he says he doesn`t have that surge of pride when he`s with his kids. No not that I always do either! But he says he NEVER does. He just feels like yeah, they`re childen. But then he added "maybe I`m too wrapped up in myself"
He did talk about how abusive his father was towards his mother right through H`s teen age years and earlier. No he didn`t connect up any dots there with his own behaviour. In fact I don`t know why he brought that up. He does look for sympathy a lot.I just listened and sympathized. And yes, what his mother put up with was horrific.
I was pretty done in after yesterday. We spoke more than we had ever spoken to each other in our lives. H isn`t a talker but he made up for that. I felt close to him after though he evidently didn`t feel the same.
Can you give a person a heart? Or maybe I`m over emotional?
I don`t know.
All I know is I`ll limp along for another little while, stick to my GAL goals, mind me and the kids.
I *think* my H may he a little further in front of where you are at the moment, so my comments are from that perspective.
When my H has in anger phase, there was no point in all at trying to talk with him or make any sort of plan to do anything as a couple, he delighted in doing the opposite. There was no way at all he would have considered any sort of MC, he was just looking away from us and all he heard was blah blah blah stop my fun. Given this was so out of character, it nearly killed me, but the more I tryed to interact in anyway, the worse it got.
I found the anger phase got worse and worse (I got more more blame for things like bad weather etc) it almost got easier to see this was not just about me. All drivers were idiots, everyone was idiots (again very out of character), all his family were not worth talking to. Has he pulling away from just you or others as well?? For me it was worse just before he moved out of this phase. I reckon he needed to get all the anger OUT, he was hardly sleeping and just ground himself to exhustion before moving on.
He was so irrational, he mentioned moving out a few time but being so confused, I waited until the few open windows he would actually talk to me and said I didn't think any major decesions should be made unless everyone was certain, just kept trying to stall during this phase.
Looking back, I would have interacted far less than I did, so he directed more anger to others in his life and away from me. What worked for me was looking at what the next stages of MLC might be (Hearts Blessings etc) and work out how I wanted to be then. I think that when he was ready to finish anger, I could then show him a bit of a chilled out path to where he was going next, but mostly put my best foot forward.
I found the odd what the hell are you doing to me conversation actualy helped, just here and there. You have to wait until he is further along before having any sort of deep and meaningful with him.
Just been to your thread and posted there before I saw this.
Yes, the anger/blame thing is very much where my H is at.Thank God for DB as I have pulled back enough to know that game and don`t whack the ball back in his court when he fires at me. I (mostly!) just listen and validate(Ok I had a major backslide last weekend!)
Anyway today is another day. I`m hearing you in your thread when you`re looking to all the posibilities in your life unfolding from here -with or without H.
I`m really weighing up every possibility but in the mean time, trying to get a life of my own.
I`ve been(apart from this weekend`s backslide) in LRT for maybe 8 weeks now. It has just made H angrier and trying to get at me. But I feel that`s positive as its forcing him out of his shell.
I`m going to continue with LRT and 180s. I have tons of interests, thank God, good friends and three great kids to keep me entertained. But I`m also going to go more even more sexy and mysterious from today.I`m on hols for the next nine weeks so I`ve loads of time to indulge myself!
And out of LRT, looking after me and the kids, and 180s I don`t have a save marriage outcome in mind. It will all help with the next phase, whatever that will be.
Will add you to my watched posts. I`m really optimistic for you making great choices and having a great future!
I`ve learnt a fe things from therapy today. H is right.
I have no heart(when I get into my crazy accusing place. Must remember the Shut the F*** UP mantra!) I am as ambivalent as he is. It is as if, after 23 years of knowing each other that I am still undecided whether I want him or not. I have no clear goal with this. Linked to above;don`t know whether I really want to stay M or not. H is treating me badly and I`m falling for crumbs. But I`ve treated him badly too and done huge damage to our M.
LRT has put in a more tranquil place.I am much happier in myself and know I have learnt so much already from this time and that itis a very special journey for me. I can listen and validate much better now.
In going to the wedding alone H is presenting himself to his family as a separated person.Even after our long coversation(three hours, a first in our relationship history) he chose that night to be with his cousins-the ones he`s been with the night before. he didn`t ask me to join him)
But last night, the guest room(H`s bed) was taken as my niece is staying for a few days. H said he`s sleep on the floor but I said it was fine to sleep in my bed that I wouldn`t go near him.
But of course after months without, I gave into temptation. We both held back a lot from each other physically though and in the morning, when i asked H if he was ok and put my hand on his chest he barely acknowledged me.
But he`s being honest. I don`t know if I feel enough to commit to him either.
I do feel we`re not as tense in conversation.
I still don`t know where I am going with this.
I`m sticking to LRT and no R talk and being calm in myself. Oh, and GAL too.
You have had a big 24 hours with lots of different stuff going on. I think there is a few days worth of stuff to process and see what pops out the other side.
I don't see how anyone can make a choice about if they want to stay with someone or not until you are in the best possible place the relationship can be, and even then it is always moving.
What do you see down the path you are on? Is it moving to a better place for you? If not, what will get it to a better path, even if takes a while to get on the right one?
It all starts with good friendship, right? One step at time...
Well, for the next few days I`ll be processing all that stuff in peace because H is gone on his big cycle trip for the next four days.
Where we`re going I don`t know. I know he`s treating me badly but I`ve started putting up boundaries on that one.
Yesterday I abandoned the post dinner mess leaving it for him to tackle-he did. I didn`t invite him to sleep with me but he did anyway. No physical stuff though. I didn`t wake up to see him off this morning.
Our talk is brief, businesslike and civil. No tension there. that`s a big plus for the kids. Maybe not enough as an example of how parents should interact but a definite improvement.
I`m working on me. The therapist has given me plenty of food for thought as to where I can improve my loving in any relationship.
I`m done with a lot of the head stuff-the labelling, the blaming, the nagging, the bitching.I know where a lot of our problems are coming from now.Unfortunately, H is not interested enough in me to want to find a solution to these problems and I`m not sure I really want to stay married to him anyway.
Each of us being ambivalent about the other is a huge source of our problem.
My job now is to go with my spiritual side. To stay calm and centered and throw this up to God to sort out.
I am continuing to improve myself, my home, my finances, my friendships. I`ll need all those things no matter what the outcome of all this is.
Your H is not interested enough in you AT THE MOMENT HOW YOU ARE NOW. Once you find your best mojo and he looks back and sees you as you have become, things can change. Honestly, three months ago H was so angry at the world in general and me, would share nothing, couldn't stay in the house at night, would have to go for drives, was only there for the kids. And within 3 months last weekend he turned the TV to Sweet Home Alabama instead of his sports and sat there and watched it with me (WTF??), asks me if I would like a drink several times, actually did the dishes and got up early with the kids without even waking me. And was relaxed and happy.
What changed? Well I tryed to remain calm throughout his anger (although there were tears! and he thought I tryed too hard). He changed too, but one of us had to show the way to a better place if you know what I mean. Being able to or wanting to stay there is a different thing, but its about giving it your best shot if you walk away as well?
Thanks for that! Sometimes all this db business is like watching paint dry and I am not the most patient person in the world either.
H is very much like your H three months ago "so angry at the world in general and me, would share nothing, couldn't stay in the house at night, would have to go for drives," only he`s not even there for the kids.
He left for his big cycle trip yesterday morning and hasn`t been in contact with either of the boys even though they have cellphones.I don`t expect him to be contacting me.
No I just can`t imagine him ever getting from this point to watching Sweet ANYthing with me. And as for offering me drinks he`s probably done that five times since we got married(no kidding!) so I certainly won`t expect that!
He`s home Monday-his birthday. The kids may remember it. I`m going to have them make nice cards for him. Haven`t decided whether to give him one myself. Not sure what the best db thing is to do. Might have the kids make a big one from all of us.
