Okay, so I've been reading but I think I must have missed another part somewhere. At any rate, I thought I read where she had a teenager by her first M and that the two of you had a four year old child. Is that correct? I was wondering b/c you have mentioned the dogs several times but have not said a word about your child. Did I read the wrong thread???
Well, I finally saw the ages of both of you and that helped. But, I disagree with you regarding her "maturity" b/c unfortunately, she is NOT mature for her age. She is about "normal" on the maturity level.....as far as I can tell. She is terribly dramatic and co-dependent, but again that seems to be the norm for a lot of 21 year old girls.
You, OTOH, have me confused b/c of your up & down resolutions. If you were 21, I might not think too much about it, but a man doesn't get on an emotional "high" one day and decide he's going to do all this "stuff" where his M is concerned and the next day he's turned over yet another leaf and decides to do a completely different technique. And, when you speak of her not contacting the OM in a couple of days (and then I think it got up to 12)......I don't know where to start. I'm not meaning to sound sarcastic, but it has my head spinning. Both of you are so erratic and until there is some type of even level of emotions in this stitch, I don't know if there will be any positive changes.
It is obvious how co-dependent she is and you've admitted that you are also......and that is a good step in admitting that. It may take everyone keeping you straight to get out of that co-dependency! I do believe you can do it.
I think I'm talking in circles myself, so I'll cut to the chase and tell you that (unless you find out that she really does have a disease)......you should tell her that you do not want to reconcile at this time. When you do that, then it will automatically cause her desire to go back to you, jack up to about the highest level. Why? B/c you are making yourself unavailable. Suddenly you are telling her that you don't want to be with her!! Wow, that would be a switch, huh? She wants what she can't have, so if she thinks she can't have you, then she'll knock herself out trying to get you. When her mother was discouraging her from reconciling, that is when she started the talk about "dating" each other or living together but not getting M. I feel that she sees that as being more exciting to know that the two of you were not legally M and that her mother wasn't in favor of it. When it is "taboo", then she likes it more. Goes back to wanting what she can't have. It also speaks of her age and the fantasy of what she thinks a MR should be like.
A blind person could see she isn't ready to turn you lose. She got jealous at the "thought" of you on a date. I think a lot of junk she tells you is to keep you dangling on a string. Girls like her do that all the time, and if you don't put an end to it.....she will continue to jerk you around until you don't know your own mind anymore. In many ways, when the H is M to a much younger woman, he has to step in and.....how shall I say this??......almost be like a "father figure". It's like Puppy said, women connect respect with love. If you put your foot down (by setting boundaries) about things she does & says, then it would probably help her stop playing these stupid games. She is playing you, you know. I suspect she does everyone like this, but of course she's worse with you.
I don't know what all happen in her past and it's not neccessary to know. But she is unstable in her R's and I think all those phone numbers you see, is her making calls to more than one man. Perhaps she is on chat boards and getting their phone numbers......I don't know, but she calling somebody and if it were people you knew, wouldn't you recognize the numbers? Just my thoughts.
If you tell her that you do not want to reconcile at this time......she will run you ragged if you don't keep a handle on it. You need to be firm in your stand and let her know that until she shows more stability in her life, trying to reconcile will not last. And, it won't!! She wouldn't be there two weeks until you would be going through this all over again b/c she's wishy-washy. She doesn't know what she wants. But you......you can get your life on an even keel and get your own self improvements in line, and strengthen the areas that need work. You don't give enough reasonable time for anything. You talk as if in two days everything should be different. It doesn't work like that and you should be old enough and have experienced life enough to know that. Both of you need a lot of "time" before reuniting.
In the meantime, you do not explain to her what you are doing!! You must get this. I could not believe you actually told her some of the things you did. That is like exposing your game plan to the opposing team. I promise you that the techniques will not be effective if you expose them to her. Just use the tools DR gives you......don't explain them to her.
If you decide to go this route, you must be determine that she does not yank you around. Do not allow her to call you wanting to know what you are doing, etc. Stop the daily contacts. Go out and live your life. Can you do that? Can you detach from her and GAL? I haven't seen you detach yet. Anyway, we can talk about it more, later, if you want.
Let me know about the child.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Okay, so I've been reading but I think I must have missed another part somewhere. At any rate, I thought I read where she had a teenager by her first M and that the two of you had a four year old child. Is that correct? I was wondering b/c you have mentioned the dogs several times but have not said a word about your child. Did I read the wrong thread???
Well, I finally saw the ages of both of you and that helped. But, I disagree with you regarding her "maturity" b/c unfortunately, she is NOT mature for her age. She is about "normal" on the maturity level.....as far as I can tell. She is terribly dramatic and co-dependent, but again that seems to be the norm for a lot of 21 year old girls.
You, OTOH, have me confused b/c of your up & down resolutions. If you were 21, I might not think too much about it, but a man doesn't get on an emotional "high" one day and decide he's going to do all this "stuff" where his M is concerned and the next day he's turned over yet another leaf and decides to do a completely different technique. And, when you speak of her not contacting the OM in a couple of days (and then I think it got up to 12)......I don't know where to start. I'm not meaning to sound sarcastic, but it has my head spinning. Both of you are so erratic and until there is some type of even level of emotions in this stitch, I don't know if there will be any positive changes.
It is obvious how co-dependent she is and you've admitted that you are also......and that is a good step in admitting that. It may take everyone keeping you straight to get out of that co-dependency! I do believe you can do it.
I think I'm talking in circles myself, so I'll cut to the chase and tell you that (unless you find out that she really does have a disease)......you should tell her that you do not want to reconcile at this time. When you do that, then it will automatically cause her desire to go back to you, jack up to about the highest level. Why? B/c you are making yourself unavailable. Suddenly you are telling her that you don't want to be with her!! Wow, that would be a switch, huh? She wants what she can't have, so if she thinks she can't have you, then she'll knock herself out trying to get you. When her mother was discouraging her from reconciling, that is when she started the talk about "dating" each other or living together but not getting M. I feel that she sees that as being more exciting to know that the two of you were not legally M and that her mother wasn't in favor of it. When it is "taboo", then she likes it more. Goes back to wanting what she can't have. It also speaks of her age and the fantasy of what she thinks a MR should be like.
A blind person could see she isn't ready to turn you lose. She got jealous at the "thought" of you on a date. I think a lot of junk she tells you is to keep you dangling on a string. Girls like her do that all the time, and if you don't put an end to it.....she will continue to jerk you around until you don't know your own mind anymore. In many ways, when the H is M to a much younger woman, he has to step in and.....how shall I say this??......almost be like a "father figure". It's like Puppy said, women connect respect with love. If you put your foot down (by setting boundaries) about things she does & says, then it would probably help her stop playing these stupid games. She is playing you, you know. I suspect she does everyone like this, but of course she's worse with you.
I don't know what all happen in her past and it's not neccessary to know. But she is unstable in her R's and I think all those phone numbers you see, is her making calls to more than one man. Perhaps she is on chat boards and getting their phone numbers......I don't know, but she calling somebody and if it were people you knew, wouldn't you recognize the numbers? Just my thoughts.
If you tell her that you do not want to reconcile at this time......she will run you ragged if you don't keep a handle on it. You need to be firm in your stand and let her know that until she shows more stability in her life, trying to reconcile will not last. And, it won't!! She wouldn't be there two weeks until you would be going through this all over again b/c she's wishy-washy. She doesn't know what she wants. But you......you can get your life on an even keel and get your own self improvements in line, and strengthen the areas that need work. You don't give enough reasonable time for anything. You talk as if in two days everything should be different. It doesn't work like that and you should be old enough and have experienced life enough to know that. Both of you need a lot of "time" before reuniting.
In the meantime, you do not explain to her what you are doing!! You must get this. I could not believe you actually told her some of the things you did. That is like exposing your game plan to the opposing team. I promise you that the techniques will not be effective if you expose them to her. Just use the tools DR gives you......don't explain them to her.
If you decide to go this route, you must be determine that she does not yank you around. Do not allow her to call you wanting to know what you are doing, etc. Stop the daily contacts. Go out and live your life. Can you do that? Can you detach from her and GAL? I haven't seen you detach yet. Anyway, we can talk about it more, later, if you want.
Let me know about the child.
Sandi
thank you for taking your time Sandi!
ok, no kids. none at all. we have 4 dogs, that are like kids, they even wear clothes lol (don't ask me). but NO KIDS.
She was 19 when we got together. definately was still in party mode, as was i in a way, and after 6 months we both completely stopped as it was posing problems in the R. we BOTH have been really good about quitting drinking, going out, etc. since that time. I know that much as fact.
i really don't think i've turned or switched techniques too much. it seems like i may alter the course, or oversteer the ship a bit much, when it comes to DB'ing, however, i go alot by feeling the sitch out and see what the results are. definately did not want to go completely dark on her, as we quickly went back to being "friends" or at least being open and talking more like friends would. we are in no way past the development of the friend stage right now.
Ummm, her mother never discouraged us from being together or dating, or getting M....
Exposing my gameplan could be a problem. I mainly have talked about things I know where i went wrong in the R. I also said things wouldn't be the same as before. but you are likely right that i've said or tried to explain to much to her at times.
On the topic of emotions, highs, my own personal feelings, etc. i do consider myself to be a quick study on things. I read and learn and try and understand things logically and as quickly as possible. i'll admit when i first heard about this detaching thing i was so confused. but literally two days ago i think it happened. I don't care if she calls, what she does, or what she says at this point. She could accuse me of being the anti-christ and it wouldn't phase me at this point. Once it happened, i could actually get a full nights rest without waking up and being depressed every 45 minutes. do most people detach from someone they love and are married to in 20 days? idk, maybe they do.
what i'm trying to say is, i don't consider myself to be like other people, and people who do know me have never grouped me together with others. i'm not saying i'm some type of prodigy or that i'm special, but i do believe i am different... i'm so not trying to sound conceited. i do try and use the advice given on this forum. i do listen to my DB coach Jody. i do listen to my close female friends who've reconciled (sorta) with their H's. I take all of the info provided to me and try and apply it to my sitch, every minute of the day.
i know i needed to get out and do my own thing, and i've been working on that. i'm not done by any means nor will i ever, because i know GAL doesn't stop if she comes back.
I will say i provided more stability in her life then she's ever had previously at any point in hers. i hate thinking of myself as a "father figure" as that's part of the reason i believe we were SO codependent. i don't want that. i consider her as my equal in the R, but i do realize i have more life experience. i don't want to be the one to solve OUR problems, i want to solve my own. and i screwed up royally in the past whenever i offered to try and advise her on her own problems.
and for the phone numbers, i do think i recognize some, as they are some of her GF's that live down there. the thing is she didn't always save their names in her phone book so i can't be sure. she also CALLS about 20% of the time, as usually it is other people calling her. but i'm in agreement that some are likely OM. why i believe this is she would talk on the phone to OM, but not necessarily text them. Her GF's she would text but rarily would ever want to spend any time talking to them on the phone. i'm not trying to analyze her at this point as it's pointless, just going off past experience as a reference.
i'm not trying to set a record in the DB book of records for my W to come home. I am likely switching techniques very rapidly on her though. that's something i need to think about, but at this stage, friend stage?, her saying flat out she wants to come home, etc... that's all kind of a moot point to me. i'm looking more at the sitch on a day by day basis, which could definately be a mistake, rather then sticking to one technique and riding it out. but how long do you know to do it for? i believe i am hyper sensitive to people's feelings and emotions. it's like blood in the water for a shark. i pick up on it instantly. i didn't always have the correct response for her feelings, as i didn't have the tools to effectively deal with it, but i'm trying. i'm learning everyday i believe. i knew there were problems in our R, but everyone has some type of problems in a R. i just really had no idea what they were because i didn't have a catalyst to make me stop and really think about them.
i'm not a dumb person, i likely over analyze many situations as stuck and pdt have pointed out to me, but when it comes to learning and applying what i learn, i think i have a higher success then failure rate... maybe not. i am always optimistic, my glass is always overflowing anyways lol.
i have let her know that if she's thinking about coming home, she's the one who makes that decision. i'm not telling her what to do one way or the other. too much of a codependent action either way imo. i put the ball in her hands to decide, letting her know i'm going on with life with or without her here.
Thank you Sandi, you have given some great things to think about, Mainly the taking charge, laying down the law type stuff with her actions... Also the erratic behavior, i think i've leveled out alot in the last couple days and i don't forsee that changing... i know i will have bad days i'm sure, but sometimes in past R's for me, once i get past something, it's like a switch is flipped and i'm over it. i did it with my parents (i know not something to be proud of but they were a HUGE STRESS in my life and i do believe i'm better off now then ever was before) in one day after a huge fight and haven't spoken to them since. I did it with my XW too. It's like a switch was flipped with me and my W now. I do love her, but if she decides to not come back, i don't believe i'll be losing any more sleep over it. sounds crazy, and maybe i am, but that's the way i am.
And i am in total agreement on her being wishy-washy. i realize now i need a firmer stance on this. any advice in this arena would be helpful, and i think pdt has helped alot in this area already... he is sort of my hero here in this subject. i hope he knows how much i appreciate his efforts. they are never lost on me. thank you pdt!
Also, no more talking about what i'm doing. i've tried to weed that out but know that i'm still guilty of doing it. No more, and that's something i'm going to focus on.
Thank you sandi! any more thoughts would be so much appreciated. you are amazing for taking the time to post such long responses, and your insight is invaluable to me.
Okay, I see what I did now. In trying to trace down your old posts, I got off on another man's stitch.... Oh me! Well, at least I'm relieved to know there are no children involved. I thought she must have been a child when she had a baby! Anyway, I see where I got so confused about everything. Maybe I can follow along better now.
You do have your hands full with her instability. It is very common for young people who get M and then when the fairy tale doesn't turn out to be what they dreamed, they begin to think of all the things they are "missing" by not being single. They start seeing the M as a jailhouse and so then problems start. A lot of things are going to be based on how quickly she can grow up. I don't mean to sound harsh when I make these statements, but my view......she is "very" young and that is contributing to a lot of her problems. Plus, whatever happened in her past doesn't help.
Talk to you later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Okay, I see what I did now. In trying to trace down your old posts, I got off on another man's stitch.... Oh me! Well, at least I'm relieved to know there are no children involved. I thought she must have been a child when she had a baby! Anyway, I see where I got so confused about everything. Maybe I can follow along better now.
You do have your hands full with her instability. It is very common for young people who get M and then when the fairy tale doesn't turn out to be what they dreamed, they begin to think of all the things they are "missing" by not being single. They start seeing the M as a jailhouse and so then problems start. A lot of things are going to be based on how quickly she can grow up. I don't mean to sound harsh when I make these statements, but my view......she is "very" young and that is contributing to a lot of her problems. Plus, whatever happened in her past doesn't help.
Talk to you later, Sandi
no arguements here
i know i can only work on myself and pray for her. if there's anything else i'm missing, please let it fly!
I was so blown away by my mess-up that I forgot to respnd to a couple of other things.
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I have let her know that if she's thinking about coming home, she's the one who makes that decision. i'm not telling her what to do one way or the other. too much of a codependent action either way imo. i put the ball in her hands to decide,
Okay, the way I personally see this is you are giving all the power to her. It's like you aren't having any say in your own life! As long as she can come and go in and out of your life as she pleases, then you can look forward to more of this same behavior pattern from her. You must take charge of your own destination. If you want her back as your W, I still "strongly" suggest you tell her that you are not prepared to reconcile at this time.
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do most people detach from someone they love and are married to in 20 days? idk, maybe they do.
It depends on how quickly they actually "get" the detaching concept. Many people get confused about detaching, going dark, and dropping the rope. They are different techniques and I kind of get up on my "high horse" when some start using the wrong definition with the technique they are applying.....but you can't fight "city hall" so I'm about to give up that fight. Anyway, a lot of LBS have been shocked to discover when they really begin to detach, how well they've been able to do it.
A lot of things you said in your response to me sounded much better than the previous things I read that you posted.
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believe this is she would talk on the phone to OM, but not necessarily text them.
I hope she's not into phone sex or just talking to men she doesn't really know! However, TM is not the same as hearing the voice and if she's into that "thrill" of another man talking to her, then that's why no TM and they are actual calls. I sure hope she's not going down that path b/c it is unhealthy, for sure.
I'm glad you see yourself as unique b/c each stitch is personal and unique to those who are in it. You probably have given her more stability than she's had in the past. I'm also glad you see her as your equal b/c I have always thought of myself as my H's equal. I do think each person has their "role" (so to speak) in a M.
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i'm looking more at the sitch on a day by day basis, which could definately be a mistake, rather then sticking to one technique and riding it out. but how long do you know to do it for?
Remember the DB rule about "stop doing what doesn't work"? As far as that part goes, we need to learn by what doesn't work and find out what does. We do have to take a day at a time with whatever that day presents. But, I think at this point of your stitch, it would be very helpful for you to have a "basic" plan as to what you are going to do. In other words, if you are going to go the "friendship" route, or if you are going to drop the rope, or go dark. That is what you have to decide and then take each day as it comes. If the friendship route causing more instability and more of her erratic behavior and keeps you dangling on a string......then it's time to change techniques. That is just an example.
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Thank you Sandi, you have given some great things to think about, Mainly the taking charge, laying down the law type stuff with her actions...
I want to make sure you have not misunderstood about what I'm suggesting. I am not telling you to act like her dictator and treat her like she is "beneath" you. I don't think that is what you mean, either. But I just wanted to make sure that NOBODY misunderstands what I'm saying. To me, setting boundaries is like drawing a line in the sand and saying, "don't cross this line or....(fill in the blank)" If she does cross that line then you need to be prepared for a consequenses that she would not find pleasant. I'm not suggesting physical violence of any such stuff as that, but a consequence to the R with you. This is something that needs to be well planned in advance by you, so you will not be caught off guard by inappropriate behavior. Due to her age and instability, IMHO, she needs a "structured" environment very much. You would have to be the one to set the tone for that environment. That is what I was trying to tell you by you almost being a "father figure" to her. I hope that was not misunderstood by any of the readers here b/c it is hard to put into words what I'm trying to suggest. She doesn't have self-discipline like she needs in her life. That is why she is so erratic. She needs you to live out a disciplined life-style before her and help guide her into the same patterns. Am I making myself plain? I know you are not dumb....and I'm not imply you are, I'm saying that I have a hard time explaining in typed words the message I want to send.
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I think i've leveled out alot in the last couple days and i don't forsee that changing
I hope you're right but I think you have thought that before. That is why I said you were too up & down with your tactics. But a lot of that is due to your stitch and the emotional pain you are dealing with here. As long as you are open to learning, then you have a terrific chance at a great life.
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I know i needed to get out and do my own thing, and i've been working on that. i'm not done by any means nor will i ever, because i know GAL doesn't stop if she comes back.
Bear in mind that GAL when S and when M has to stay balanced. GAL when S is to help make you a more interesting person and draw your attraction from her and mainly to keep your focus from being on her and the stitch all the time. Since the history has been what it has, you may need to be careful at what your GAL will be "if" she returns. We can discuss that much later. Some people have misunderstood what GAL consisted of and went way over-board in the party life-style and I don't see that as showing stability, IMHO, but that is just "who" I am.....it may not be who you are at all.
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Also, no more talking about what i'm doing
Good for you! You sound strong today and very upbeat and determined. That's great! If I can help you with any questions you may have, I'll do my best. I may not have the answers, but we can talk about it.
Have a good weekend.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you Sandi, you have given some great things to think about, Mainly the taking charge, laying down the law type stuff with her actions...
I want to make sure you have not misunderstood about what I'm suggesting. I am not telling you to act like her dictator and treat her like she is "beneath" you. I don't think that is what you mean, either. But I just wanted to make sure that NOBODY misunderstands what I'm saying. To me, setting boundaries is like drawing a line in the sand and saying, "don't cross this line or....(fill in the blank)" If she does cross that line then you need to be prepared for a consequenses that she would not find pleasant. I'm not suggesting physical violence of any such stuff as that, but a consequence to the R with you. This is something that needs to be well planned in advance by you, so you will not be caught off guard by inappropriate behavior. Due to her age and instability, IMHO, she needs a "structured" environment very much. You would have to be the one to set the tone for that environment. That is what I was trying to tell you by you almost being a "father figure" to her. I hope that was not misunderstood by any of the readers here b/c it is hard to put into words what I'm trying to suggest. She doesn't have self-discipline like she needs in her life. That is why she is so erratic. She needs you to live out a disciplined life-style before her and help guide her into the same patterns. Am I making myself plain? I know you are not dumb....and I'm not imply you are, I'm saying that I have a hard time explaining in typed words the message I want to send.
thank you sandi!
ok a question or two....
i understand the idea of setting boundaries and stating what is acceptable to me and what is not. NOW, what would be a good example of a consequence if she overstepped a boundary?
say she comes back and is textin some OM? what would be a logical or pertinent consequence for that action?
Also, for example, she says she's thinking about coming back at such and such date, and it doesn't happen. what would be a relative consequence?
i'm throwing out examples, only looking for ideas of consequences. this is something i haven't done in the past, nor have i found much in the way of information regarding this topic. HELP?!
i've been giving a lot of thought to telling her i'm not ready to reconcile... now, since this isn't what i want, because i do, i just don't care when it is, if it even ever happens. BUT, say i do tell her this. what then? i haven't been able to come up with what happens next?
i need some guidance here as i'm a bit lost because it is going against what i ultimately want. i know it's a tactic or technique, but how do i make it work? what should happen after i tell her that?
Puppy is really your man for giving good examples of consequenses to stepping over boundaries. It is hard to use with adults b/c they are going to do what they want to do and what can you do about it, right? I know Puppy use to tell his W when he thought she might be texting OM that he sure hoped she wasn't contacting OM b/c that would be highly disrespectful. With your young wife, it would call her attention to what she was doing at that percise moment, which is probably what she needs due to her erratic actions and thoughts. But if she continued to do the TM after you reminded her....then she definately would need to face the consequenses. If you pay for her cell phone bill, then you could discontinue the sevice and she would either have to fork it up or earn your trust that she would not contact OM again. Promises don't weigh much in stitch's like this, so that is why I chose the word "earn".
You are the one that knows her best and what is very important to her. She's not a teenager who you can "ground" but you can find other means to show her that the decisions she made is not worth it in the end. I understand the fact that if a woman wants to contact OM, she will find a way. I know b/c I did it! The point is that she show you respect in your presence. You cannot "make" her stop all contact with OM, but I think you could make her very aware that you will not tolerate that inappropiate behavior in your presence. See what I mean?
I don't know that others would agree with me on this example, and like I said.....those who actually have used it would be more helpful. But, if she proceeds to TM after you warning her once about the boundary (and I would only warn her one time and not keep warning b/c it loses its affect) then I would then tell her that since she chooses not to show you respect that you do not wish to spend the evening with her and that you will be going out without her. I would not explain where you were going or doing. Just leave her there to think about it, and not return until late. Don't give into her pleading or promise making. Like a child, she has to learn you mean what you say. Now, true.....she would also have "her" time when you leave her alone....to do all the inappropriate things you don't want her doing. I realize that, but you know you can't be her prison guard. She can do that whenever she decides she wants it badly enough. There is just so much one can do in your stituation, but hopefully, it would cause her to really respect you.
I had lost a lot of respect for my H, but b/c he did not put up with my cr@p with OM, he won the respect from me. Yes, I did sneak around behind his back to contact OM....but I sure did not do it in his presence!! That would be the ultimate show of disrespect, IMHO. I can almost hear the groans of LBH's and saying that the EA was the ultimate show of disrespect. I'm talking as an almost WAW and how "they" think in terms of showing the respect in your presence. It is a matter of you having some control in what goes on in your presence. Just as you would not stand by and allow some other people to disrecpect you to your face without letting them know you would not tollerate it. Right? Then that is what you need to do with her. When you ignore it or argue the point.....it is not effective. "Actions" is what is effective.
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Also, for example, she says she's thinking about coming back at such and such date, and it doesn't happen. what would be a relative consequence?
Well, that's why I said you have given her all the power by allowing "her" to make the choices of reconciling or not. She is playing this on again--off again game with you and you should not have to put up with it. Not to offend you, but I see how you could "man-up" by telling her that you have decided that you are not ready to reconcile at this time. You are taking back the ball into your court and saying in so many words that you are going to be in charge of "your" life.....not her. I think I can almost promise you what she will do, but I don't think you quite believe it, yet. But you will see just how pursuing she'll become.
You are not telling her that you don't want to reconcile. You are saying you don't want to right now. If she asks your reasons, I would suggest that you do not get into a long drawn out conversation, but tell her that both of you have areas that you need to improve and she doesn't really know what she wants at this time. You want her to know without any doubts, that she is ready to be a faithful wife and stop this running in and out of the M. If she is not ready to be "faithful" then you aren't ready for her to return. No "dating" and living together unmarried, like she suggested once before. B/c that leaves her free to treat you anyway she chooses and what are you going to say? As her H, you have a right to say when you approve or disapprove of how she lives and what comes into your home and how she does in your presence. If you are not legally M to her, all you could do would be to throw her out of your house.
Anway, I am so certain that if you tell her you are not "ready" for a reconciliation, that you will have a much stronger chance of seeing her make some real efforts in making up her mind.....that is why I keep my stand on this. Being a woman, and an almost WAW, I can tell you that it will make her get her act together a lot quicker than the way you have done so far.
I think you should have a say in the "date" of her return (if you decide to reconcile) and if she does not show up and keep to what she said........that is about as much proof as you need to show you how unstable she is and that she has no business being in a M than a toy. Be thankful that there are no children involved b/c she sure has no business being a parent. She hasn't been made to be responsible for her own actions alone, so she sure doesn't need to be responsible for the welfare of a child.
You want her to see how that when two people are in a MR that you have to be responsible for your actions. All grown ups have to do that. She must not have been made to answer for bad decisions growing up....I don't know, but she is so wishy-washy and apparently thinks it is fine to tell a person she will do something and doesn't follow through and doesn't think it necessary to give an explanation. I have known a few people like that, and it always causes great drama in their life and their family never knows what to expect. Maybe you want to live like that, but I can't see much hope for peace and happiness. At your age, you may not have given much thought to having "peace". I know I didn't. But I can assure you that some day you will realize just how important it is to have that calm sweet peace and to cut out the drama. I've had enough drama to last a lifetime. No, I am not refering to my EA, but to other things that happened. I may not have an exciting life in the viewpoint of somebody in their 20's, but I am happy and contented. That says a whole lot! I hope you will eventually find that for yourself.
Anyway, you may want to contact Puppy and ask for some examples in the consequenses departement. I'm sure he'll thank me.....LOL. We can discuss more about this, but in the meantime, you be thinking of the things you know are most important to her. Is it taking part in recreation, entertainment, travel, spending time with friends, shopping, intimate time, or going to parties? Those are just some ideas off the top of my head, but you have to look at what she values the most and how that could be limited if she does not respect you and her R with you. I hope you or anybody else doesn't get the wrong message here and I could see how a person would read it the wrong way. I am trusting that you do know how I mean this and use it wisely.
If you think of something else, let me know. If I can't answer it, then maybe I know who can.....
Later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Puppy is really your man for giving good examples of consequenses to stepping over boundaries. It is hard to use with adults b/c they are going to do what they want to do and what can you do about it, right? I know Puppy use to tell his W when he thought she might be texting OM that he sure hoped she wasn't contacting OM b/c that would be highly disrespectful. With your young wife, it would call her attention to what she was doing at that percise moment, which is probably what she needs due to her erratic actions and thoughts. But if she continued to do the TM after you reminded her....then she definately would need to face the consequenses. If you pay for her cell phone bill, then you could discontinue the sevice and she would either have to fork it up or earn your trust that she would not contact OM again. Promises don't weigh much in stitch's like this, so that is why I chose the word "earn".
You are the one that knows her best and what is very important to her. She's not a teenager who you can "ground" but you can find other means to show her that the decisions she made is not worth it in the end. I understand the fact that if a woman wants to contact OM, she will find a way. I know b/c I did it! The point is that she show you respect in your presence. You cannot "make" her stop all contact with OM, but I think you could make her very aware that you will not tolerate that inappropiate behavior in your presence. See what I mean?
I don't know that others would agree with me on this example, and like I said.....those who actually have used it would be more helpful. But, if she proceeds to TM after you warning her once about the boundary (and I would only warn her one time and not keep warning b/c it loses its affect) then I would then tell her that since she chooses not to show you respect that you do not wish to spend the evening with her and that you will be going out without her. I would not explain where you were going or doing. Just leave her there to think about it, and not return until late. Don't give into her pleading or promise making. Like a child, she has to learn you mean what you say. Now, true.....she would also have "her" time when you leave her alone....to do all the inappropriate things you don't want her doing. I realize that, but you know you can't be her prison guard. She can do that whenever she decides she wants it badly enough. There is just so much one can do in your stituation, but hopefully, it would cause her to really respect you.
I had lost a lot of respect for my H, but b/c he did not put up with my cr@p with OM, he won the respect from me. Yes, I did sneak around behind his back to contact OM....but I sure did not do it in his presence!! That would be the ultimate show of disrespect, IMHO. I can almost hear the groans of LBH's and saying that the EA was the ultimate show of disrespect. I'm talking as an almost WAW and how "they" think in terms of showing the respect in your presence. It is a matter of you having some control in what goes on in your presence. Just as you would not stand by and allow some other people to disrecpect you to your face without letting them know you would not tollerate it. Right? Then that is what you need to do with her. When you ignore it or argue the point.....it is not effective. "Actions" is what is effective.
Quote:
Also, for example, she says she's thinking about coming back at such and such date, and it doesn't happen. what would be a relative consequence?
Well, that's why I said you have given her all the power by allowing "her" to make the choices of reconciling or not. She is playing this on again--off again game with you and you should not have to put up with it. Not to offend you, but I see how you could "man-up" by telling her that you have decided that you are not ready to reconcile at this time. You are taking back the ball into your court and saying in so many words that you are going to be in charge of "your" life.....not her. I think I can almost promise you what she will do, but I don't think you quite believe it, yet. But you will see just how pursuing she'll become.
You are not telling her that you don't want to reconcile. You are saying you don't want to right now. If she asks your reasons, I would suggest that you do not get into a long drawn out conversation, but tell her that both of you have areas that you need to improve and she doesn't really know what she wants at this time. You want her to know without any doubts, that she is ready to be a faithful wife and stop this running in and out of the M. If she is not ready to be "faithful" then you aren't ready for her to return. No "dating" and living together unmarried, like she suggested once before. B/c that leaves her free to treat you anyway she chooses and what are you going to say? As her H, you have a right to say when you approve or disapprove of how she lives and what comes into your home and how she does in your presence. If you are not legally M to her, all you could do would be to throw her out of your house.
Anway, I am so certain that if you tell her you are not "ready" for a reconciliation, that you will have a much stronger chance of seeing her make some real efforts in making up her mind.....that is why I keep my stand on this. Being a woman, and an almost WAW, I can tell you that it will make her get her act together a lot quicker than the way you have done so far.
I think you should have a say in the "date" of her return (if you decide to reconcile) and if she does not show up and keep to what she said........that is about as much proof as you need to show you how unstable she is and that she has no business being in a M than a toy. Be thankful that there are no children involved b/c she sure has no business being a parent. She hasn't been made to be responsible for her own actions alone, so she sure doesn't need to be responsible for the welfare of a child.
You want her to see how that when two people are in a MR that you have to be responsible for your actions. All grown ups have to do that. She must not have been made to answer for bad decisions growing up....I don't know, but she is so wishy-washy and apparently thinks it is fine to tell a person she will do something and doesn't follow through and doesn't think it necessary to give an explanation. I have known a few people like that, and it always causes great drama in their life and their family never knows what to expect. Maybe you want to live like that, but I can't see much hope for peace and happiness. At your age, you may not have given much thought to having "peace". I know I didn't. But I can assure you that some day you will realize just how important it is to have that calm sweet peace and to cut out the drama. I've had enough drama to last a lifetime. No, I am not refering to my EA, but to other things that happened. I may not have an exciting life in the viewpoint of somebody in their 20's, but I am happy and contented. That says a whole lot! I hope you will eventually find that for yourself.
Anyway, you may want to contact Puppy and ask for some examples in the consequenses departement. I'm sure he'll thank me.....LOL. We can discuss more about this, but in the meantime, you be thinking of the things you know are most important to her. Is it taking part in recreation, entertainment, travel, spending time with friends, shopping, intimate time, or going to parties? Those are just some ideas off the top of my head, but you have to look at what she values the most and how that could be limited if she does not respect you and her R with you. I hope you or anybody else doesn't get the wrong message here and I could see how a person would read it the wrong way. I am trusting that you do know how I mean this and use it wisely.
If you think of something else, let me know. If I can't answer it, then maybe I know who can.....
Later, Sandi
THANK YOU SANDI!!!!!
ok, you've given me a lot of great things to think about. You are an angel, sent straight from God i believe. I mean that. Thank you so much.
pdt? any ideas about setting good consequences in my Sitch?
I 
Oh me! Well, at least I'm relieved to know there are no children involved. I thought she must have been a child when she had a baby! Anyway, I see where I got so confused about everything. Maybe I can follow along better now.
