Okay, so I've been reading but I think I must have missed another part somewhere. At any rate, I thought I read where she had a teenager by her first M and that the two of you had a four year old child. Is that correct? I was wondering b/c you have mentioned the dogs several times but have not said a word about your child. Did I read the wrong thread???
Well, I finally saw the ages of both of you and that helped. But, I disagree with you regarding her "maturity" b/c unfortunately, she is NOT mature for her age. She is about "normal" on the maturity level.....as far as I can tell. She is terribly dramatic and co-dependent, but again that seems to be the norm for a lot of 21 year old girls.
You, OTOH, have me confused b/c of your up & down resolutions. If you were 21, I might not think too much about it, but a man doesn't get on an emotional "high" one day and decide he's going to do all this "stuff" where his M is concerned and the next day he's turned over yet another leaf and decides to do a completely different technique. And, when you speak of her not contacting the OM in a couple of days (and then I think it got up to 12)......I don't know where to start. I'm not meaning to sound sarcastic, but it has my head spinning. Both of you are so erratic and until there is some type of even level of emotions in this stitch, I don't know if there will be any positive changes.
It is obvious how co-dependent she is and you've admitted that you are also......and that is a good step in admitting that. It may take everyone keeping you straight to get out of that co-dependency! I do believe you can do it.
I think I'm talking in circles myself, so I'll cut to the chase and tell you that (unless you find out that she really does have a disease)......you should tell her that you do not want to reconcile at this time. When you do that, then it will automatically cause her desire to go back to you, jack up to about the highest level. Why? B/c you are making yourself unavailable. Suddenly you are telling her that you don't want to be with her!! Wow, that would be a switch, huh? She wants what she can't have, so if she thinks she can't have you, then she'll knock herself out trying to get you. When her mother was discouraging her from reconciling, that is when she started the talk about "dating" each other or living together but not getting M. I feel that she sees that as being more exciting to know that the two of you were not legally M and that her mother wasn't in favor of it. When it is "taboo", then she likes it more. Goes back to wanting what she can't have. It also speaks of her age and the fantasy of what she thinks a MR should be like.
A blind person could see she isn't ready to turn you lose. She got jealous at the "thought" of you on a date. I think a lot of junk she tells you is to keep you dangling on a string. Girls like her do that all the time, and if you don't put an end to it.....she will continue to jerk you around until you don't know your own mind anymore. In many ways, when the H is M to a much younger woman, he has to step in and.....how shall I say this??......almost be like a "father figure". It's like Puppy said, women connect respect with love. If you put your foot down (by setting boundaries) about things she does & says, then it would probably help her stop playing these stupid games. She is playing you, you know. I suspect she does everyone like this, but of course she's worse with you.
I don't know what all happen in her past and it's not neccessary to know. But she is unstable in her R's and I think all those phone numbers you see, is her making calls to more than one man. Perhaps she is on chat boards and getting their phone numbers......I don't know, but she calling somebody and if it were people you knew, wouldn't you recognize the numbers? Just my thoughts.
If you tell her that you do not want to reconcile at this time......she will run you ragged if you don't keep a handle on it. You need to be firm in your stand and let her know that until she shows more stability in her life, trying to reconcile will not last. And, it won't!! She wouldn't be there two weeks until you would be going through this all over again b/c she's wishy-washy. She doesn't know what she wants. But you......you can get your life on an even keel and get your own self improvements in line, and strengthen the areas that need work. You don't give enough reasonable time for anything. You talk as if in two days everything should be different. It doesn't work like that and you should be old enough and have experienced life enough to know that. Both of you need a lot of "time" before reuniting.
In the meantime, you do not explain to her what you are doing!! You must get this. I could not believe you actually told her some of the things you did. That is like exposing your game plan to the opposing team. I promise you that the techniques will not be effective if you expose them to her. Just use the tools DR gives you......don't explain them to her.
If you decide to go this route, you must be determine that she does not yank you around. Do not allow her to call you wanting to know what you are doing, etc. Stop the daily contacts. Go out and live your life. Can you do that? Can you detach from her and GAL? I haven't seen you detach yet. Anyway, we can talk about it more, later, if you want.
Let me know about the child.
Sandi
thank you for taking your time Sandi!
ok, no kids. none at all. we have 4 dogs, that are like kids, they even wear clothes lol (don't ask me). but NO KIDS.
She was 19 when we got together. definately was still in party mode, as was i in a way, and after 6 months we both completely stopped as it was posing problems in the R. we BOTH have been really good about quitting drinking, going out, etc. since that time. I know that much as fact.
i really don't think i've turned or switched techniques too much. it seems like i may alter the course, or oversteer the ship a bit much, when it comes to DB'ing, however, i go alot by feeling the sitch out and see what the results are. definately did not want to go completely dark on her, as we quickly went back to being "friends" or at least being open and talking more like friends would. we are in no way past the development of the friend stage right now.
Ummm, her mother never discouraged us from being together or dating, or getting M....
Exposing my gameplan could be a problem. I mainly have talked about things I know where i went wrong in the R. I also said things wouldn't be the same as before. but you are likely right that i've said or tried to explain to much to her at times.
On the topic of emotions, highs, my own personal feelings, etc. i do consider myself to be a quick study on things. I read and learn and try and understand things logically and as quickly as possible. i'll admit when i first heard about this detaching thing i was so confused. but literally two days ago i think it happened. I don't care if she calls, what she does, or what she says at this point. She could accuse me of being the anti-christ and it wouldn't phase me at this point. Once it happened, i could actually get a full nights rest without waking up and being depressed every 45 minutes. do most people detach from someone they love and are married to in 20 days? idk, maybe they do.
what i'm trying to say is, i don't consider myself to be like other people, and people who do know me have never grouped me together with others. i'm not saying i'm some type of prodigy or that i'm special, but i do believe i am different... i'm so not trying to sound conceited. i do try and use the advice given on this forum. i do listen to my DB coach Jody. i do listen to my close female friends who've reconciled (sorta) with their H's. I take all of the info provided to me and try and apply it to my sitch, every minute of the day.
i know i needed to get out and do my own thing, and i've been working on that. i'm not done by any means nor will i ever, because i know GAL doesn't stop if she comes back.
I will say i provided more stability in her life then she's ever had previously at any point in hers. i hate thinking of myself as a "father figure" as that's part of the reason i believe we were SO codependent. i don't want that. i consider her as my equal in the R, but i do realize i have more life experience. i don't want to be the one to solve OUR problems, i want to solve my own. and i screwed up royally in the past whenever i offered to try and advise her on her own problems.
and for the phone numbers, i do think i recognize some, as they are some of her GF's that live down there. the thing is she didn't always save their names in her phone book so i can't be sure. she also CALLS about 20% of the time, as usually it is other people calling her. but i'm in agreement that some are likely OM. why i believe this is she would talk on the phone to OM, but not necessarily text them. Her GF's she would text but rarily would ever want to spend any time talking to them on the phone. i'm not trying to analyze her at this point as it's pointless, just going off past experience as a reference.
i'm not trying to set a record in the DB book of records for my W to come home. I am likely switching techniques very rapidly on her though. that's something i need to think about, but at this stage, friend stage?, her saying flat out she wants to come home, etc... that's all kind of a moot point to me. i'm looking more at the sitch on a day by day basis, which could definately be a mistake, rather then sticking to one technique and riding it out. but how long do you know to do it for? i believe i am hyper sensitive to people's feelings and emotions. it's like blood in the water for a shark. i pick up on it instantly. i didn't always have the correct response for her feelings, as i didn't have the tools to effectively deal with it, but i'm trying. i'm learning everyday i believe. i knew there were problems in our R, but everyone has some type of problems in a R. i just really had no idea what they were because i didn't have a catalyst to make me stop and really think about them.
i'm not a dumb person, i likely over analyze many situations as stuck and pdt have pointed out to me, but when it comes to learning and applying what i learn, i think i have a higher success then failure rate... maybe not. i am always optimistic, my glass is always overflowing anyways lol.
i have let her know that if she's thinking about coming home, she's the one who makes that decision. i'm not telling her what to do one way or the other. too much of a codependent action either way imo. i put the ball in her hands to decide, letting her know i'm going on with life with or without her here.
Thank you Sandi, you have given some great things to think about, Mainly the taking charge, laying down the law type stuff with her actions... Also the erratic behavior, i think i've leveled out alot in the last couple days and i don't forsee that changing... i know i will have bad days i'm sure, but sometimes in past R's for me, once i get past something, it's like a switch is flipped and i'm over it. i did it with my parents (i know not something to be proud of but they were a HUGE STRESS in my life and i do believe i'm better off now then ever was before) in one day after a huge fight and haven't spoken to them since. I did it with my XW too. It's like a switch was flipped with me and my W now. I do love her, but if she decides to not come back, i don't believe i'll be losing any more sleep over it. sounds crazy, and maybe i am, but that's the way i am.
And i am in total agreement on her being wishy-washy. i realize now i need a firmer stance on this. any advice in this arena would be helpful, and i think pdt has helped alot in this area already... he is sort of my hero here in this subject. i hope he knows how much i appreciate his efforts. they are never lost on me. thank you pdt!
Also, no more talking about what i'm doing. i've tried to weed that out but know that i'm still guilty of doing it. No more, and that's something i'm going to focus on.
Thank you sandi! any more thoughts would be so much appreciated. you are amazing for taking the time to post such long responses, and your insight is invaluable to me.
I 