I Love You But...

[eternaloptimist]

With all due respect, EO, that's bull$hit. And it's typical infidelity "script" to boot. You showed that you weren't willing to live in an open marriage? And there's supposedly something WRONG about that, that it makes him "afraid" of you??? WTF???

Well, truth dart time, honey: "If it scares you that I would stand up for myself and not be willing to live with an open marriage, then that's your issue, not mine."

I've studied affairs for three years now -- thousands of them. I would estimate that in 98% of them that were exposed, the cheating spouse says "Well, NOW you BLEW it!! I WAS thinking about getting back together, but YOU CAN FORGET THAT NOW!!!" . . . or something VERY similar to it.

Honestly, can't these people come up with something ORIGINAL at least???

Puppy

LOL - Puppy! Preach on! Yes, he says a lot of BS things, is passive/aggressive, sends me confusing signals, still wants to comfort me and says he cares about me, that this decision and place he is in is painful for him too, on and on... But I was pretty mean when I lashed out at the therapist in public, that scared him. I also yelled at him this week, saying that I would turn our son against him. I seriously can't seem to bite my tongue. I apologized and said that I would never really do that. Again, I say things in the heat of anger that I regret. Gotta avoid the conflicts, my number one problem.

While it is not a justification for my hurtful words, my pain is still so raw. I've endured 3 years of his emotional abuse and felt victimized even before he dropped the bomb. A person can only take so much. I'm not one to bury my feelings, so they have exploded I guess. Not pretty.

I'm just not getting what nut to crack here... H says the EAs are just blips in an otherwise long history of being unhappy, way too many conflicts, financial betrayals that changed the course of his life for the worst, and on and on. It's a big "S*&$ sandwich," to use his words and he wants to take back control of his life to make it happy. Yes, I know that is typical affair garbage. But we did have conflict for years before the EAs. We've been together for 21 YEARS, married for 17 YEARS and we are only 39 and 41.

Gonna take your advice, Puppy, and just GAL... Be the best eternal optimist I can be.

The EAs just made our bad marriage worse.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I also yelled at him this week, saying that I would turn our son against him. I seriously can't seem to bite my tongue. I apologized and said that I would never really do that. Again, I say things in the heat of anger that I regret. Gotta avoid the conflicts, my number one problem.

UGH, that's not good. Whoo boy. Yeah, you need to work on that. I'm glad you apologized for that one.

Puppy

[orangedog]

H says the EAs are just blips in an otherwise long history of being unhappy, way too many conflicts, financial betrayals that changed the course of his life for the worst, and on and on. It's a big "S*&$ sandwich," to use his words and he wants to take back control of his life to make it happy.

Yes, I know that is typical affair garbage. But we did have conflict for years before the EAs. We've been together for 21 YEARS, married for 17 YEARS and we are only 39 and 41.

Script. Rewriting history. Gaslighting. Call it what you want but don't let this typical WAW B$ ruin YOUR memories and your view of yourself. You were there too and you know what happened.

Conflict IS part of marriage and part of life. It's what you do with it that counts.

[Kittyfish]

With all due respect, EO, that's bull$hit. And it's typical infidelity "script" to boot. You showed that you weren't willing to live in an open marriage? And there's supposedly something WRONG about that, that it makes him "afraid" of you??? WTF???

LOL! If Puppy wouldn't have said it I was going to. Honey, they all say this kind of stuff.

Like Puppy I've been studying alot about infidelity for over four years. I've been on several relationship forums- read books- etc- what your H is doing is script.

Is there anyway you could have someone spy on him next week while you're on vacation?? Why isn't he going with you????

[eternaloptimist]

I also yelled at him this week, saying that I would turn our son against him. I seriously can't seem to bite my tongue. I apologized and said that I would never really do that. Again, I say things in the heat of anger that I regret. Gotta avoid the conflicts, my number one problem.

UGH, that's not good. Whoo boy. Yeah, you need to work on that. I'm glad you apologized for that one.

Puppy

Yeah, I need to work on my bitterness about what a divorce would mean for my life b/c it is making me come across as a vindictive and mean person when I reaaly am not at alll. I see divorce as an utter failure, something to be ashamed of, like I'll be falling into a lower class of people (no offense to anyone here) b/c it just goes against all that I have ever stood for, all that I have ever wanted for my life. I never even wanted to date anyone unless I thought they were marriage material, so consequently I dated few men and married the 2nd man that I'd ever had a serious relationship with in college. I have high standards!

I guess if my marriage was so important to me from the get-go, I should have made A LOT of different choices. I should not have hurt my husband the way I did all those years ago. I'm mad at myself. I have to grieve for the things I did to get to this horrific place. I thought that I had forgiven myself a long time ago. But, maybe I never fully did? I've disappointed my husband so much and I can't undo the past. I thought I made up for it by having our son and contributing equally to our finances and quality of life.

I have a lot of work to do on myself.

[eternaloptimist]

With all due respect, EO, that's bull$hit. And it's typical infidelity "script" to boot. You showed that you weren't willing to live in an open marriage? And there's supposedly something WRONG about that, that it makes him "afraid" of you??? WTF???

LOL! If Puppy wouldn't have said it I was going to. Honey, they all say this kind of stuff.

Like Puppy I've been studying alot about infidelity for over four years. I've been on several relationship forums- read books- etc- what your H is doing is script.

Is there anyway you could have someone spy on him next week while you're on vacation?? Why isn't he going with you????

Hi, Kitty. Spy on him? LOL Well, I've still got the software on the computer to track what he's doing that way. And I have neighbors who can drive by to see what he's doing I think. He's not going on vaca with us b/c he's been saying that he wants to be alone for months. So, when we made plans to go to the beach, I invited him. But he said that he couldn't get away from work. I've seen his work calendar (went to his office unannounced yesterday when he wasn't there) and he does have meetings. So I don't think he's going to meet the therapist. I imagine her life is in turmoil right now.

[Kittyfish]

Well the fear was that she would lose her job- which I definitely think he will blame you for. But now that this has happened what is to stop them from having further contact?

Not that you can control this, at all, I'm just sayin........

I want to be alone or I need space is usually "I need space to conduct my affair"

[Puppy Dog Tails]

How's it going, EO? Just thought I'd check on you!

Puppy

[eternaloptimist]

Hi! Thanks for thinking of me. What a whirlwind the past few weeks have been. The vaca at the beach wasn't so great. My constant nausea didn't subside until day 4 (lost 28 lbs. so far) and then the phone calls with my H were very unpleasant. Our son didn't want to talk to him on the phone, so of course I got blamed for that. I tried really hard to relax on the vaca, but my grief and despair overcame me a lot of the days...

Trying to detach and be strong. But basically I feel like it's all over for us. Everyone keeps telling me to just accept what he wants and move on. I feel like I've been trying to "give up" but the part of me that doesn't want the divorce will just not die. What does this mean? Am I THAT co-dependent? Am I that afraid to feel the pain? My heart just aches. I have such an utter disgust for divorce and really do not want my family to fall apart.

My H did not know that the therapist had lost her job. He seemed surprised when I finally told him. My guess is that she is now trying to salvage her life sans the job and sans the possibility of EVER getting a job as a social worker in this state.

Nevertheless, H is planning to move out at the beginning of August and we'll be separated. (No legal separation in my state.) Will he get some clarity and change his mind? H has said, "Maybe...but it's doubtful" in a nasty and sarcastic tone. He says he's just "tired" and can't stand the constant fighting. I really don't think he'll ever see our marriage in any positive light, no matter how much I DB or be nice to him. Earlier this week though, when I came home from work I found him on the couch looking as if he'd been crying. I was strong and asked him if there was anything I could do to help. I was there to comfort him about his sadness that our son won't be in his life every day. I said a lot of very positive things like that I would never do anything to hurt his relationship with our son, that I want him to find a nice place to live, that I'd help him move, that he could take whatever furniture he'd need, that I will never do anything to prevent him from seeing our son, etc. I know he's been avoiding confronting his feelings about not seeing our son everyday. So I reached out to him and he actually cried in front of me and hugged me. He told me tonight that he was telling all of his friends "how nice" I've been. But then we had a fight tonight and he said "I shouldn't have believed you were really being nice to me." Backsliding again!

Then he went out of town for work for a night. Our phone calls were short and cordial, and I know he was with work people b/c I saw the conference paperwork, saw who he carpooled with, etc. No more "I Love Yous" at all, no more little kisses at the door. I stopped doing any of this stuff, but now I think I should have kept it up b/c it seems like it was making things better. When he got home tonight, we had some tense discussions and fighting.

I'm so lost with all of this. Do I just give up now? When do I know it's time to give up? Once he moves out, some of my friends think he's going to sink deeper into a depression and come crawling back to me. How on Earth can I DB when he's not in the house?

[eternaloptimist]

Well the fear was that she would lose her job- which I definitely think he will blame you for. But now that this has happened what is to stop them from having further contact?

Not that you can control this, at all, I'm just sayin........

I want to be alone or I need space is usually "I need space to conduct my affair"

I totally hear you...but now she's being reported to the State Licensing Board for further investigation. So I'm about 99% sure he has had no more contact with her. Nevertheless, I'm cautious that he might try to get in touch with her somehow, esp. after he moves out. I calmly asked him before our vaca if I should expect that this woman will be in his life and in our son's life. His response was weird...he said "Well, not right now" and then later he tried to say he was being sarcastic. I seriously don't know why on Earth he'd risk being involved with a married woman with 3 kids who is now unemployed with little possibility of ever getting another job. He's mostly been focused on finding a place to live decent enough for our son to visit.

Oh, I'd love your take on this too. He recently told me that he'd "come clean" about his "affair" (still not even acknowledging it was an EA) with the therapist to his friend who is a psychologist. None of his close friends were supposedly even shocked in the slightest. I guess they think he was justified in doing anything he wanted to because he's been so unhappy. No one can see how sick it was or how depressed he is. He also told his Mom about the affair and she had nothing to say. So my H took this to mean that she was ok with it. In all cases of disclosure to friends/family, he says that no one admonished his behavior or thought it was a big deal. So he took that to mean that no one was surprised or upset and that I must have done something pretty awful to him to make him do these things. His ego is amazing, isn't it? He actually said, "Well, they all think that for me to do something like have an affair, you must have made me so unhappy because I'm one of the nicest, best guys walking the face of the planet." Even his brother has said that it was obvious to him and everyone else how unhappy he's been. So I guess I'm the scapegoat for all of his unhappiness...