Didn't you say early that intimacy = into-me-see and isn't this the same as being vulnerable?
Yes, see into me. Vunerable means I am dropping my defense mechanism. Takes a lot of time and energy to stay protective and I have a need to protect myself because I am afraid. If I drop my fear and drop my defense mechanism then I am open and much more capable of using my energy now to give instead of defend. When we post here aren't we vunerable? Don't we learn the most when we open up, expand our thoughts and accept feedback? We call them 2x4s here because you opened up and we give harsh feedback, was it intended to hurt or help? What was once viewed as a weapon (2x4) is actually a loving gesture on someone else's part. If I stay defensive I won't learn and I won't feel loved, this is all in my control. Initially this takes trust on my part to be vunerable. Trust is faith in another person. After a while I am not dependent on your actions to be vunerable, trusting and open because it's really my choice. I am responsible for my thoughts, actions and emotions. I am not naive enougth to think all people can be trusted all the time, that is what boundaries and consequences are for. I let myself be vunerable here. I really shared here about myself. I learning and benefitting from others here constantly. It's because the DB community is vunerable, open and loving. Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
So we are developing the toughness (or most likely love) to be able to stick our necks out there again? I told a friend this am that I think I have to be the vulnerable one b/c I was the stronger of the two people in my M now.
Would that we were all so centered and emotionally healthy. I don't know about you, but I'm nowhere near there yet, and until I am, I'm sorry, but "vulnerable" = "open to being HURT"
Puppy
Puppy, I get that. I am learning everyday. I am just trying to drop the fear of being hurt, I am finding the risk (fear) is mostly my doing. Would you rather be around someone who is open, gives honest feedback, shares their feelings, and has your best interest at heart or someone guarded and always waiting for the other shoe to drop? Life is much more fun playing offense instead of defense. Cheers
ps Tell Mules to hook you up with me in the alt univ.
Was thinking more about this exchange between @Puppy and @Coach and it strikes me that the distinction may be at that intersection where the Fear of Hurt (preventing one from loving) is greater than the Fear of Loving (for fear of getting hurt).
@Coach, if I've got this wrong tell me, but what I hear you saying reminds me of an epiphany of sorts I had when I started to do The Work on me...
I remember, one sleepless night (like @Thinker's last night and with other very similar symptoms in terms of W's demeanor at the time), waking up with a start... and realizing that a recurring bad dream I used to have had become it's own self-fulfilling prophecy. I subsequently wrote about it in a letter to W (before I knew of her affair):
You know all about my impossible task dream, the one that I worry that S7 has inherited. [As a child, whenever I had a high fever, I would have a dream that would always wake me up in terror. I couldn't remember the whole thing, but I knew it involved some sort of "impossible" task or puzzle. S9 was 7 at the time I wrote this, but had described his nightmare the same way.] But, when we married that dream was replaced by one in which you left me and I couldn’t find you. I had this dream at least once a year... No one would tell me where you were. Those who knew were under strict instructions not to let me know where you could be reached. I’d always wake up in sheer terror with my heart pounding… but you were always there next to me and I’d hold you until I fell back asleep. I realize now that dream was a self-fulfilling prophecy. The irony is it created a fear in me that I tried to avoid. I was afraid to love you because the hurt would be so unbearable if you did leave. If I loved you too much, I feared getting hurt or embarrassed, neither of which I do well...
The possibility of that dream becoming reality is worse than the dream itself. In the waking world, I have more to lose and am more likely to lose you (if I haven't already) by not letting you know what I've never been good at communicating. While I can't make you love me again; I know that if I don't love you, I will surely lose the most important thing in my world...
I may be slow, but I’m no longer afraid, although it is a lesson I’m afraid I’ve learned the hard way, but maybe it was the only way...
So, @Coach, is that the distinction you are making? You can't let the fear of loving be the very thing that keeps you from loving fearlessly?
Or, should I go get a cup of coffee and start over again...
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
So, @Coach, is that the distinction you are making? You can't let the fear of loving be the very thing that keeps you from loving fearlessly?
Yes! Does that make you vunerable if you are loving fearlessly? Yes, the fine line is crossing from fear to love. The energy of love trumps the energy of fear. If I act out of love when would I have something to fear?
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
The energy of love trumps the energy of fear. If I act out of love when would I have something to fear?
That's a good, positive message coach - almost something that would appear on one of those motivational posters...
...but man is it tough to swallow.
If you act out of Love, and that Love is rejected or taken advantage of, then that hurts - really hurts.
Do if you act out of Love, you still have something to fear...
For many of us the gut level reaction is to avoid Loving in order to avoid just that pain (ie "I don't give a Flying F___ whether you stay or go! Don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out"). Leave them before they finally leave you.
That is the gut level reaction of THE FEAR. For me, the Love has to be stronger than the Fear, but I am not sure that (or am not yet at a place where) the Love replaces the Fear.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
That is the gut level reaction of THE FEAR. For me, the Love has to be stronger than the Fear, but I am not sure that (or am not yet at a place where) the Love replaces the Fear.
If your child was in the road and a car was screeching towards them wouldn't you jump in the way so they wouldn't get hit? All kinds of pain involved sure but why did you do it? Was it a act of love? Did you think about it?
Had this conversation last night at the dinner table. If your son right now needed a kidney and you were a match would you give him yours? What if you thought your remaining kidney might fail later? What if it was your W?
Acknowledge the fear and think thru it. Why would you choose this action? What is really the worst that can happen? One of my HS coaches used to tell us when we were running, "Don't worry you will pass out before you die, you won't feel a thing." Took my mind off my cramps.
Quote:
If you act out of Love, and that Love is rejected
that is why giving without expectations works
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or taken advantage of, then that hurts - really hurts.
that is out of your control, plus that is a sign the other person is hurting. If I expect nothing in return then you can't take advantage of me. It was a choice I made to just give. I am not advocating continuing to give to someone who doesn't appreciate you but sometimes we must give because its's the right thing to do. My humble experience is I get the most love back when I expect nothing in return. I would not have bought into this idea a year ago because I was scared. Now I take the snakes on. Cue Samuel L Jackson "I'm sick and tired of all these mf'n snakes on this mf'n brain."
As a coach one of my tenents is "confidence comes from being prepared." Learning the tools here helps you get prepared for the internal and external situations.
Cheers
ps There is a really funny spoof website of all those feel good posters at despair.com
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Her conscience is clear; she believes she HAS done everything she can... to get you to change?????
The very definition of a Walkaway. Which begs only one or two or a thousand questions....
Now she has given up hope, drawn the line in the sand and is moving on. Copied this from Mrs SPs thread over on the MarriageCrushers site:
Quote:
Now the LBS changes, the very definition of a DBing LBS. Which begs only one or two or a thousand questions......
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
