Can anyone answer this? Part 8

[sandi2]

Okay, I'm back for another round...lol.

First, let me say amen and amen to T2SP's post!

I know it makes for a long post but I feel that I need to respond to separate things that have been said in order to make sure it is covered. Hope you don't mind.

... xh said once. "I am leaving, you can go with me if you want to". We had been dealing with son with the same issues, no job, computer all the time and disrespecting me.
Xh said he couldnt take it anymore but I could always talk to xh and settle him down a bit. This went on and on and I think "among" other stuff that happened, pushed my xh over the edge.

Wow.....that's just sad. But I still think it was your H's way of bailing out of a bad situation instead of maning up and taking hold of the stitch the way he needed to do. People can't just turn their backs and leave when life gets hard. Of course, that's what "he" has done, but it will catch up with him. There will be a payday someday.

Sandi, I do lay down the law to him, but I will be honest with you. I dont know if I can just put him out. I am sorry, I know I need to, but he has no where to go.

Okay. But what do you do when you lay down the law and he still does not abide by that law? You see, if he has no consequenses to suffer--by not respecting your rules, then what does it matter to him? That is the law of the land. You either obey the laws or you suffer the consequenses. What will he do if he chooses to go out and rob a bank? Will he think he'll get off b/c somebody will bail him out? It will be the same case as T2SP's parents with the 30 year old. Listen, I have seen it happen with my own in-laws. It was horrible and guess where that 38 year old "kid" of theirs is now? In the pen. If they are not made to respect rules and laws and people in authority (parents, teachers, judges, etc.) then they are in for a bad time of it. Perhaps you think I'm going over-board in your case, but I've seen it happen too many times where parents would cater to their kids and bail them out and refuse to make them take responsibility for their actions. It is up to you as to how long you want to live in that environment, but it is not good for your son. Look at that 30 year old who is going to live with his girlfriend and mamma is worried he won't make it. I can promise her he won't make it! But, I think I can also predict that she will continue to bail him out b/c he will go to her and keep going until she is completed deleted of any souce of funds or ways of assisting him and then he'll be through with her and move on to the next sucker. Listen, I helped burry a woman this week who raised three generations of kids b/c hers would not be responsible parents like they should be and would cast their children off on her to raise. They killed her! In fact, the last time I had a conversation with her, I tried to tell her that they were doing that very thing and she said, "But what am I suppose to do?" and I told her that if she died tomorrow, they would find some way to take care of their families. Well, guess what? It looks like they will have to, now! So, it bothers me to see grown children take advantage of their parents, but at the same time......guess where it started and who is to blame for the kids being the way they are?

I see you as being a peacemaker. I see that as being a big part of your personality. I can see you being caught in the middle between your child and your H when the son was growing up. However, things are much different now and we could talk all day about how things were not done correctly in the past and it will not change the way things are today. So, you have to approach your problems with "how to deal today".....not "how should it have been done differently" b/c that is really a waste of time, right?

I did send him to his dads once and he came back begging me to forgive him.

I'm sure that Dad made it so uncomfortable for the son that he would never want to live with him again. Remember, that was one of the reasons for Dad leaving.......to have "peace", right? So, he's not about to allow his son to have a grand old time at "his" house. That is why he made this statement:

he would never understand us over here"

You asked what he meant by that, well he meant that son would not be happy in their environment b/c Dad would make sure of that. He "implied" that they were strict over there and you weren't. He has no intentions of son laying around his house all day and staying on the computer instead of working.

You do know that computers are very, very addictive, don't you? People have lost their jobs b/c they couldn't stay off the computer! I think it is so much worse with the younger generation b/c they were born into this era of technology and don't know how to do things the way most of us did when we were growing up. I watch my little GD and she doesn't even play "house" like I did when I was her age. She's got some kind of tech toy playing games! If I told her to go build a "playhouse", she would probably think I meant to build one out of wood...lol.

It's funny how much he loves his dad and talks to him with respect...even beyond respect now. (Son is so afraid of losing his dad he says "I am sorry dad" every other sentence.), but yet he doesnt like staying with his dad unless its on a trip.

I don't know that it is as much "respect" as it is "fear". You said yourself that he is afraid of losing his dad. Kids fear parents b/c of them being too strict (or abusive) or rejection. Don't you think your son knows how his dad feels about him? If your XH yelled and cussed and carried on in front of son.....then he probably expressed his true feelings without holding back on account of son listening. In fact, I would think that your son is dealing with some "guilt" about his dad leaving. That guilt is not being "displayed" the way it seems it would be......but all the same, if he has any smarts at all, he knows some of the problems that his dad had where he (son) was concerned. Still doesn't justify his disrespect toward you as his mother, but you are the reason behind him being that way and you will have to be the one to change it.....not your XH.

Remee, the sooner you will realize that your X is no longer going to "help" you with son or anything else in your life, the better you will actually become. You will be stronger and your self-esteem will be healthier when you stop depending on X to help. He's made it abundantly clear how he feels toward you and now that you have explained more about X's feelings toward the raising of your son.....I think more than just "you" were involved in his leaving the M and home. I still think he's in MLC but due to his previous inabilities to properly raise his son and his temper and all of it put together.......the thoughts of him ever returning to a M with you doesn't look to promising. I'm sorry. I don't mean to kick you in the gut when I say things so bluntly. I don't know how to tell it like it is without being plain.

I dont want you to think xh or son "always" talked to me this way. Just sometimes.

I understand. And, like you said that they did not always treat you badly, etc., but I look at it this way Remee, it only takes a little poison to make you die. What do you think killed the M? Poison! As I told you, listening to your posts is like hearing my sister tell her stitch. It breaks my heart to see her spend so many years in the mess she has. She could have prevented it, but she sat back and took what was dished out to her. Now, I don't think there is much hope where her son is concerned, but I certainly "hope" I'm wrong. He is older than your son, but quickly on his way to being like the 30 year old that was described. In fact, he's almost that age now and still lives at home, being disrespectful to his mom, fears his dad, never has a social life apart from his dad, has hardly ever dated, and would not have a job if not for his dad hiring him. It seemed him and his dad had a good R when he was young, also....but that R is quickly souring and dad is talking the same way your X did. He wants out of the mess he help create! You see, they have not "raised" him to be self-suffient. He will not have it easy as an adult. My nephew is frustrated and isn't happy and he isn't sure why. I can tell you why. B/c it's not normal the way he has grown up!

I know you want better for your child. As I said, it is late, but hopefully not completely too late. It will not be at all easy for you to try to turn your son around. You need to think about what to do that would be his consequenses if he does not go to work, if he shows direspect, etc. You have to have him abide by your rules if you allow him to continue to live with you. He is a lucky young man. What would happen to him if (God forbid) you accidently died? He would "have" to find a way without you, then, wouldn't he? Besides, you don't want him to meet a girl and fall love and want to get M and not even be able to support a family! You know yourself how hard it is to be M and raise a family, so he needs to be growing up, getting a job established and mature before getting M.

Sandi how am I suppose to keep son from calling his dad (while he is still in the home)?

I don't suggest you try to keep him from calling his dad. My point was him calling his dad in the mist of the two of you having an argument and him "tattling" to his dad about you. Also, my point was that you not talk to the dad, as well. That is when your self-discipline would have to come into play. It is your nature to want to talk to XH, so if your son is on the phone....and even if he's talking about you.....turn around and leave the room. Refuse to talk to your X. Yes, it will be hard at first, but you'll learn.

You forgot to say whether your X helps with the bills, etc. I wondered by him telling you to give that phone back to son b/c he (dad) paid for it. If it is a cell phone and your X pays the phone bill, then you don't say anything......just don't fall into that entrapment like before. If your X doesn't pay the "bill" then that is a different story. It's one thing to buy a cell phone and yet quite another to pay the monthly bill.

BUT now that xh is out of the house he thinks he doesnt have to deal with it. Should he???

There may be differnent opinions about whether he should or should not, but the point is that HE ISN'T!! That is what you have to coop with, is that he isn't taking any responsibility for anything in your life....including his son. I think he looks at his son as already "being raised" and his job is over. What he won't accept is the fact he just run away from it. But, anyway, he's not going to do anything about son, so forget that.

I tried to talk to his dad because I felt like I had to defent myself.

I know, sweetie, but can you take an older person's advice about that? Don't even try. It won't do any good. You are wasting your breath b/c XH doesn't give a flip one way or the other. (Brutally plain again)

like he is the MAN of the house.

That idea could have been planted by somebody else, but anyway, you have to be the one to make him think otherwise.

I meant, how can I give my xh space when son keeps complaining to him about me. Like you said xh is never going to respect me if this keeps happening.

Okay, you can't control what your son does 24/7. He will talk to dad sooner or later and he may complain about you. That is really doesn't have anything to do about you giving XH space. The problem that comes into play is when "you" talk to the XH over the phone. That is not giving him space!! Also, what I meant was when you were trying to "defend" yourself, XH saw it as you being like a child and tattling or complaining to him to make the son behave and respect you. Does that clearify things a little better? I know I don't make myself understood a lot of times. I am going too fast and trying to cover too much ground.

I left my xh alone and hadnt even seen him in 3 months,

I'm sure that seems life forever to you, but it isn't when two people have gone separate ways and he's not wanting to see or hear from you. Bear that in mind.

I expect his dad to tell him, "son you leave with your mom so you go by her rules, grow up and stop calling me to complain", this would be good for starters. Unrealistic??? Anything would be better than telling him to get away from me and agreeing with son when xh isnt even here to hear or see whats going on.

So, are you going to turn to XH again?

How long does this anger last?

Well, for starters, I would look at three years instead of expecting a change in three months. However, he may never change his feelings, Renee. The sad truth is that some people never get over their past. I hope he will, but what garantees do you have? None. So, what will you do with the rest of your life?

If I've taken up all your space, then just start another thread.....

I'll talk to you later,
Sandi