So I hear you, for sure. By the same token, I've been thinking wink like our colleague does, and the @Coach-Greek example to the contrary notwithstanding, I wonder about this notion -- "'this,' the M, can work." It seems clear to me that "this" isn't the same "this" that it was pre-Bomb. So how can one assume the new "this" will work? It seems to me that new rules would have to be negotiated, new understandings reached, etc. Now this is more-or-less the same thing one does in any "new" relationship, so it's not an insurmountable obstacle.

I dont disagree with you but I do feel that when a totally new R happens (i.e. one that is not with your W) the "new rules" of a new R seem to happen in a more organic and natural fashion. IMO (or at least in my experience with my H) that is where the WAS finds it to be too much work because they have not done the work. And in the case of my H who has had a GF for a 1.5 years now, why do the work with your W when you get all the fun with a new person? His experience of his affair and GF really seemed to cement in his mind that R's should not be work. And for nwo his new R is no work. His new R is void of all "real life" things such as bills, planning for the future, family dynamics and all the big life decisions and plans a married couple must make and work through.

Its not a terribly natural feeling to have "guidelines" or "rules" so to speak with a spouse you have been married to for xx years. Especially when the LBS tends to be much further along in the "working on the R and themselves" process than the WAS is.

I also know in my H's case he will not allow himself to fail again. That simply is his nature (not just in R's but his life outlook in general). So I think there are many variables the WAS considers that arent that pressing to the LBS.

But as the power has shifted in my sitch, I sort of woke up with a 2x4 to the head: "Hey dude -- it, ummm, wasn't all you. There were 2 people in this marriage." WAW's attitude towards me in the context of the D has certainly evolved (right word?) as I noted to Puppy above. But it has evolved (regressed?) to her "normal" M behavior towards me: pushy and critical combined with a dollop of thin-skinned and defensive. She doesn't actively listen. I have to be constantly mindful of using the phrases "my point of view" and "my perspective."

That isnt at all surprising to me. The WAS is unsure how to process this all because all of a sudden the LBS isnt a sobbing mess. It becomes clear to the WAS that the LBS will not only be just fine but maybe better. In order to cope, it is my opinion the WAS must revert back and work extra hard to try and change the dynamic back to the old unhealthy one so they can operate in the forum (unhealthy) in which they are comfortable. That is the exact reason I have trained myself to have ZERO reaction to my H and what he says or does. He expects me to have some sort of emotional reaction which would only allow him to justify his decison to leave the marriage and continue his affair. I am always polite, kind and cordial but I give him nothing more or nothing less. Any emotions I have to deal with that are painful or upsetting to me I deal with on my own or with my C.

I have also found that when anything positive happens between the WAS and the LBS the WAS tends to retreat back to their old ways - again, in an attempt to bring the R back to its old, unhealthy state.

I think, across the board no matter what the particulars of the situation are, there is always some sort of power struggle between the WAS and the LBS. And I dont mean from a legal sense. Some of us never find that balance and some of us do. I can imagine its far more difficult when children are invovled so I cant comment on that aspect. But as far as two spouses are concerned I do believe a very deep power struggle exists. As they say, the one that cares least about the R is the one that controls it. And I dont mean they dont care as if they dont give a sh*t about you or your well being as a person but as a spouse, the WAS needs that power/control in order to forge ahead with their plan. They can forge ahead all they like and rarely think of all the ramifications and consequences but in most cases despite what the LBS may do, their mind is made up.

A WAS doesnt like to be wrong and in order for them not to be wrong I think they carry huge amounts of guilt. While this may sound cold that is their issue to own, process and work through and sadly, most WAS simply do not.

After 1.5 years of separation w/a 3rd party involved my WAS still follows the script to a "T". He is really just a collection of cells that is so consumed with cliches and BS and justifications I just dont let it get to me anymore. Well, once in a while it does but not nearly as often as it used to.

My H LOVES to tell me how happy he is. Well, GREAT! I tend to think that people who have to brag to anybody that will listen how happy they are, well, maybe they are trying to convince themselves. I could be wrong and maybe he is happy. If that is the case then good for him. It is my opinion that you dont have to lie, cheat, steal, manipulate and emotionally abuse somebody to "find happiness" but we are all different.

And maybe in many ways I take a more "manly" stance in this. But I spent close to a year being the wrecked wife who was sick (emotionally and physically) and I am done with that. Forever. If I didnt become tough as nails I would have continued down a path that was nothing short of self destructive. I have flaws and lots to work on but that hardly means I should be treated like dog doo.

The best way to end this power struggle is to simply NOT participate. There were times my tounge was nearly bleeding because I so wanted to say *something* to my H or just lash out but my silence was far more confusing to him.

If you dont want to be in limbo then get the heck out of there. You have that power to leave "the land" or allow your WAS to keep you there. IMO "leaving the land" is best for you and possibly for the fate of your M.

I dont know about you but I am done being jerked around. I had to make that choice for my health but I am glad I did because it was the best thing for my heart/mind. And somebody can only jerk you around if you let them.

This may sound cold. Its not. I wont coddle a WAS any longer though. Its a real kick in the face for the WAS when they realize the LBS will no longer be there for them. Funny how my H is "so happy" with his GF but when it comes to real life things (him needing support, work problems or comfort) I am the first person he calls. So let your W move to her new house and once she realizes that you will only be there in the form of a co-parent, well, things might change (or they might not) but you have to let the WAS experience it all.

I am not jaded to this process. I have been well schooled. At the end of the day I matter to ME. This was not an overnight process, it isnt or anybody. It just seems to me you have so much focus on your W and her actions. You cant control it, you wont figure it out and you may never understand or get the answers you seek. Then what? You sort of stay in square one, no?