It is that I don't know what I'm doing...I'm cool, I'm detached, I'm moving on...and then whack...emotional side-swipe.
Ok, so he wanted me there but he's told them too much sh*t about me so it would be too weird...what happened to his vision of us being "friends?" I still want to call him on it, which means I'm still way too preoccupied with him and what he says.
BTW- when the topic of other woman[en] comes up, "it's not like that' AND "I haven't even slept with anyone." I can't tell if I'm being greased and broiled here or if he has a shred of actual care for this R left.
It sure seems like the God's of fortune don't hesitate to reward the leavers (home-slice literally has round the clock catering)!!!
I know, don't compare...but my kids are having a tough time adjusting to reality when they get home...
And blah blah blah...it's just cope, cope and cope somewhere and I want to bust out.
I know AAK. The OP factor messes with the head and its so hard to sep out if you care about them (spouse) or just derailed because of feeling insulted by the situation, the "other" factor. In your case it seems like you are dealing with distracting other people (bandaids?), but the ever present other "relationship" is the affair your H. seems to be having with celebrity high life.
Regardless, its pretty horrible and astounding to be devalued-which is what this whole process does.
My H. also likes to toss out the "we are spending lots of time together, its not like I'm sleeping with her. It has nothing to do with what happened between us". Whatever, I no longer dignify this conversation topic. But it does remind me how self absorbed, out to lunch he is.
Hang in there today.
Me 30 H 33 together:10 years married:5 years Separated: 1/23/09 living apart 5 mos and counting "when you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on"-FDR
You've both written recently about the self-absorbed and narcisstic traits in your WAS. My WAW has not been clinically-labeled as NPD (Narcisstic Personality Disorder) though our one-time-MC, now my IC, thinks it is a good possibility.
But, as I posted earlier today (and I would love each of your thoughts if you (and @Kett and, heck, anyone on your thread) have a chance to stop by my new thread) this whole notion raises an interesting question which is how much of what we see in WAS's behavior is extrinsic (peer pressure, especially when you live in LA ;)) versus intrinsic (and truly a manifestation of one's own personality)?
I'm no psychologist, but it would seem to me that when narcissism is a function of one's surroundings and how one chooses to live, there's more hope for the LBS than when it is a true personality disorder. At least with the former, you can envision a "Eureka" moment or self-applied 2X4, where the WAS says "What the f*ck am I doing?".
But, in the case of the intrinsic narcissist, that won't likely ever happen, because, at least as I understand it, the true narcissist is truly insensitive to others’ needs and indifferent to the effect of their own egocentric behavior.
The hope would always be that ones WAS is either extrinsically-self-absorbed or suffering from some form of temporary-NPD...
The bad news is that a true narcissist must meet 5 or more of these criteria; the good news is that even if they do they aren't necessarily NPD...
•grandiose sense of self-importance •preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love •belief that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) •need for excessive admiration •sense of entitlement •takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends •lack of empathy •envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her •arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
So, here's to hoping your WAS has 4 or less of these traits...
Well Alex- This is really tricky stuff and really may not be worth expending too much energy on because, barring some kind of clinical diagnosis (which is also tricky because even psychs are tricked and manipulated by narcissists), can't be answered (far be it from me as to see that as a reason to resist postulating).
My H went through a similar "crisis" 6 years ago, woke up, came home, pledged his desire to change etc. seemed to have perspective. Looked back on the crisis time and "didn't know who that was."
Now, here he is again. The narcissistic characteristics were there all along but managed. So, is he becoming his "true" self or is he going through a phase in which he finally succumbs and then has a true awakening or, or, or...and how much of our lives do we want to spend on this?
If you read about clinical narcissists, you'll sh*t your pants because they are like emotional vampires that thrive on having emotional dependents...
I got so freaked out about it and now I am trying to be in the space of, "time will tell."
Every sign points to loving attachment with boundaries regardless of the mental state of S.
Plus, we are all narcissists, we all tend to respond to someone pulling away by moving toward them. For the WAS to do this is an exhibition of narcissistic mind-f*ckery (clinical term)...
By the way, the whole notion of extrinsic narcissism is flawed to me. We grown ups are drawn to and choose our influences...our peers mirror us and our behaviors reflect our own intrinsic realities. The question to me is, is this a finite exploration by WAS or is this the new and permanent S?
H, sleeping elsewhere for 6 months (traveling for weeks or months at a time) When in town, super hands on dad Has indicated that there is/are a person/persons... Spent first few months basically hounding me, had sex a number of times H is enamored with show biz, and all the trimmings Is extremely reactive to the idea of me hooking up with another man Has evolved from projecting all blame and guilt on me to taking some responsibility, referring to himself as "train-wreck, idiot" Has some MLC behaviors, or GAL (depends on how you look at it) Has some narcissistic tendencies (maybe clinical), I am clearly co-dependent (at least in this R, wasn't so prior too (at least I don't think)...but self esteem has suffered greatly (and I was cool being the "woman behind the man", now just the "woman left behind by the man"... H has enmeshed mom and pines for dad's attention (Hs dad left two families so far) Has the capability and capacity to be very present, loving and involved We are in serious debt Is cared for and enabled by super rich friends
I see the same thing everytime I look at your thread. A very bright, articulate, self-aware person making choices everyday to stay enmeshed in the situation. And your H is like a child, spoiled, getting his way, having fun. One adult; one child.
Do I think you could benefit from Retrouvaille? Yes. But I have to ask you this, and you don't have to answer publicly. Would your H go there with no alcohol and no drugs? Because they don't allow it. And I only say that because of the whole Hollywood rockstar type lifestyle, not because I know anything about your H. I think if he took a break from the movie-star scene and focused for 48 hours on family needs, he might wake up to at least a few realities. In fact, I think going to a retreat may be the only way you can wake him up to some realities.
