"So I am talking to the lawyer to understand the law and the truth, to face the fear, and to be prepared (like a good ex eagle scout) in the event that W does decide to run and file."
Thinker, I saw your response on SP's thread. I went from WAW demanding the house and kids all to herself to getting the court to order her out of the house, and then after 2 years getting about 60% custody, eliminating spousal support and a lot more but it costs a lot in lawyer's fees and much distress to fight a hostile or unreasonable WAW in the so called "no-fault" state-sponsored family-wrecking machinery. To me if WAW wants D for selfish reasons and refuses to consider any other sensible alternative then go, but go with nothing. Unfortunately I don't make the laws or set the moral standard in our decrepit society. Don't get me wrong - while I may be angry at what I've been put through, I've striven to save the M in many, many ways and to forgive her and be the very best dad in the world, but given the stuff my WAW has proven beyond reasonable doubt to be made of (unstable mind, selfish, hostile, dishonest, OM, bad values, etc) I realized after a point I had to seriously look out for myself and the kids' welfare. I haven't kept up with your 'sitch' but I will catch up when I get some time. Meanwhile consult the "best" lawyer you can find and "be prepared". Do not let all this DBing take you unawares - the WAW is usually about 2 years ahead of you as far as planning for D.
So if she wants to separate, she would have to work out a complete separation agreement, including how much spousal support she would need during that period of time. I'd have to figure out how to pay the mortgage and still pay that spousal support, etc. I don't think she want's to face any of this. (and I am not volunteering to help her figure it out).
So basically, that leaves her with "I'm Trapped! I'm Trapped! You are Trapping Me!"
@Greek's comments sure seem sound to me, he said alliteratively. As I look over the last dozen or so posts I see two dynamics in tension: First, the emotional/couplehood dynamic, or what we might call The Clash Challenge (should I stay or should I go?); second, the money money money dynamic, or the ABBA Challenge.
So which '70s groups prevails, ABBA or The Clash? In a sense, neither -- they are two discrete problems.
With respect to the money, assuming D is inevitable you're going to be paying. With respect to the couplehood, you're going to be paying a different price. So right now, which of the two is cheaper?
It might well be the case that you're better off by being home and not at your company offices. But are you better off NET? Or is WAW's state of Trappeditude a NET LOSS? In other words, are you being penny-wise and pound-foolish? Sure, you're saving gas money and spending more time with the kids and GALing -- but is that simultaneously pushing WAW further and further down the D-Road?
On the other hand, you're perfectly within your rights to demand that WAW get out of Dodge if she wants that space. Though you'll have to pay the price for that. So what's the tradeoff? If WAW gets the space and air, loses the feeling of being trapped, do you get a DB Payoff > financial cost? Sure, that's a theoretical tradeoff, but I know you know where I'm going with that. Gotta spend money to make money, right? Question is -- would you make money? Or would Separation simply be Dress Rehearsal for Divorce?
Since you've got the Benjamins in the relationship, you have a bargaining advantage. WAW, says Thinker, I understand your Trapped-ness. I do. And I hope you understand that I don't want to deliberately trap you. But I can't help feeling that (a) we'll BOTH be worse off financially if there are 2 residences to pay for and (b) that the kids will suffer more with us separated than apart-together. At the same time, being a Fine and Upstanding Human Being, I don't like to see you suffer. So I'll make you a deal. If you agree to go to Retrouvaille on umpty-ump weekend, I'll start working the numbers to get you set up if we're unable to make any progress after that weekend.
Because if you're going to be dropping some coin, it's reasonable that you get some kind of return on that investment. At a minimum, if she WANTS that separation badly enough, she'll suck up the price to her. If she's unwilling to pay that price, on the other hand, then you know something.
I like the balance SP is trying to strike here, Thinker. I would tweak it just a tad though. Offer up moving to the remote office in exchange for Retrov. b/c, of course, you understand that Mrs. Think's stress is real...and you want to help.
Cheers ~
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
I like the balance SP is trying to strike here, Thinker. I would tweak it just a tad though. Offer up moving to the remote office in exchange for Retrov. b/c, of course, you understand that Mrs. Think's stress is real...and you want to help.
Cheers ~
Interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way.
By the "remote office" I am assuming that you mean the one 30 minutes away (still living at home) rather than the ones hundreds of miles away where my W has asked me to move (which would require me to move out).
It would be a good compromise, and would give W part of what she is asking for.
Interestingly enough, I'd be willing to bet that after a bit, my W would ask me to start working from home again some days, because of the flexibility that it gives her to come and go without always having to pack 3 kids in the car, work around naptimes, etc. -- but then it would be her choice, not mine.
Biggest stress would be that I'd have to buy another car, but I can do that.
Last edited by Thinker; 06/22/0901:56 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
...the so called "no-fault" state-sponsored family-wrecking machinery.
Just a quick note: in New Jersey, Divorce requires proof of fault (Abuse, adultery, abandonment, etc). As I understand it, there are 2 loopholes.
1) Abuse has been stretched to include very loosely defined "Emotional Abuse" - but it still requires proof.
2) Separation. The only "No Fault" D available is after the couple has been separated (living in separate homes and having separate finances) for 18 months.
Last edited by Thinker; 06/22/0902:55 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
...the so called "no-fault" state-sponsored family-wrecking machinery.
Just a quick note: in New Jersey, Divorce requires proof of fault (Abuse, adultery, abandonment, etc). As I understand it, there are 2 loopholes.
1) Abuse has been stretched to include very loosely defined "Emotional Abuse" - but it still requires proof.
2) Separation. The only "No Fault" D available is after the couple has been separated (living in separate homes and having separate finances) for 18 months.
1) is a gaping loophole and they invariable use it. Ronald Regan's first wife used it accusing him of "mental cruelty". As for 2) - you can't stop her from moving out IF she chooses. But you stay put - in the same house, in the same bedroom, on the same bed or you may be accused of "abandonment". And while you're at it be the best dad you can be and the best DBing H (assuming you can set healthy boundaries to deal with her mental/emotional state of disarray). Sorry I have to speak in generalities for now (and you probably know all this) due to lack of time.
In our discussion about her desire for separation on Saturday night, W said "I'd even be willing to try that weekend thing" referring to Retrovaille. She also asked when it was, where, etc. and I told her I would send her the link.
This morning I followed up and emailed her the link to the Retrovaille website.
Just got her response - 1 line:
"That's Fine with me....How about September?"
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
In our discussion about her desire for separation on Saturday night, W said "I'd even be willing to try that weekend thing" referring to Retrovaille. She also asked when it was, where, etc. and I told her I would send her the link.
This morning I followed up and emailed her the link to the Retrovaille website.
Just got her response - 1 line:
"That's Fine with me....How about September?"
Yay Thinker!
I'd love to try that "weekend thing" with my W.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
