GETTING UN'STUCK'

[MrBond]

aak,

Okay, to get to your long awaited question. Here's what I've been doing for myself.

I've started going to the gym and actually was thinking of running a marathon. I go out with friends but not overboard so I'm not neglecting the kids or dumping them on her. I've also been going to church services by myself. Makes me feel alot better being in touch with a higher power.

When I do these things, I just tell her that I'm going to do them. I do ask if it's okay so I don't seem rude or if she had something planned so the kids aren't thrown off.

When she told me I could go to the gym the other day, it was more of a courtesy as she knew I hadn't been able to make it out this whole week. It wasn't necessarily me getting a pass from her to go like a kid.

I see what you meant about my prior behavior seeming like a third kid. Even though I took on the bulk of the household duties, her perceptions for when I wanted her attention was like a kid. Of course now in retrospect, I know how I should have approached her about the spending time together thing.

When we're home together I take charge and just do things that need to be done. I keep our interactions pleasant and friendly. Although maybe too friendly which would give off the needy vibe that gucci and robx are picking up on.

All those things have been building up my confidence and self-esteem, although I didn't really suffer in that dept. until the bomb.

How she views me in light of all her past perceptions and personal issues, I have no idea. Whatever. I feel better.

That's what I've got going so far. Any other ideas?

[MrBond]

gucci,

It doesn't have to be through emotional detachment. This is what is tripping you up....

DISCIPLINE. It comes through discipline..
Discipline yourself DESPITE your emotions. As a man, this should be something that you can logically understand... Keep your emotions out of it. Discipline yourself to do and say and act detached. Forget out the emotional detachment "before" you get confident, let go and whatever else you say you will have after detachment. Just do it as a discipline."

Just so I understand, is this like faking it? Even though the emotions are there, push them down and "act" emotionally detached?

This is something that I have been working on and am still working on. The questions, panic, anxiety, etc. that I post here I don't show her. She might pick up the vibes and that's what I'm working on getting rid of.

These posts are where I unload alot of the emotional stuff.

[MrBond]

25yearsmlc and sandi,

Since you were both on opposite sides of the sitch, I'm just curious to see what your thoughts are in all this.

[MrBond]

Just for the sake of argument, I don't think the hardline approach would work with someone in MLC which I think my W is in. When she starts re-evaluating everything in her life that she's worked for, not just our R, then I think giving them ultimatums that are not of their own choosing would work.

I think sandi and a couple others had said that too.

[MrBond]

aak,

Oh yeah and most importantly (in terms of my changes and working on myself) I wrote down all the things that she said she didn't like about me (temper, pouting, judgmental, etc.) and have changed those behaviors. Not for her, but for me and to make me a better person. For that I'm glad this all happened. Sometimes you need someone to tell you you've been an @$$ before realizing it.

[25yearsmlc]

If we didn't have any kids, I would have cut her strings a while ago. However, we do have kids, so they are my first priority. Showing them how a father treats their mother with love and respect is the model I want to show them so that they will want the same in their relationships.

Stuck, you are a great guy. This is early on and I think you are right to hang in there.

On the physical stuff, I would go so teeny tiny with it when you do. Not even a foot rub. A brush by her or some subtle contact...

How's your R with the kids? Weird as it sounds, it turned me on when H was super attentive super dad with the kids. Really endeared me and made me feel like I was with a "man" rather than a boy. Or, he would handle something with the kids "just right" (I mean with energy and imagination).

YES YES YES....NO WOMAN IS UNMOVED BY THE LOVING INTERACTION BETWEEN HER CHILDREN AND THEIR FATHER (OR ANY MALE ROLD MODEL IF THE FATHER IS ABSENT) FOR ME, IT'S LIKE FOREPLAY EMOTIONALLY...

Just musing here...

Curious, have you ever in a very manly way looked at her and told her that you are not leaving her, that you are fighting for this marriage, that she is the love of your life and the mother of your children and you are going to do what it takes AND that you hope she steps up too.

Wow, that would make an impression on ME.

I'm NOT saying you should, but, I always wonder what would have happened if my H had...

Bet you wish you did know, AK, huh?

Stk,

Ignore what people say about giving up if you are not ready to.
But this whole psychoanalyzing of her does enable you to NOT focus on you. Why is that? What are you doing to GAL? What are the 180s?
You need to work on YOU and only you, b/c you're all you can control and in a way, really, who are you to judge what she needs to work on? You can and should tell her about YOUR needs and all that, but not what "She needs to do to improve as a woman blah blah blah--big turn off.

Don't you want her to see you as being "on her side" meaning that the M is the goal and you are a team, not adversaries with marriage as the penalty...make sense?

Last but not least, please NEVER ask your wife again whom she fantasizes about while ML to you. OMG. What good could possibly come from that type of question? I don't know if my h does that while we ML but I sure as hell do NOT want to know and if he does, I surely don't want to know who...OMG!!
Let me go puke...

FWIW, on occasion maybe an image of some faceless guy in a commercial might pop into my head, or a bf from 30 years ago... Doesn't mean anything but it embarrasses me a bit and I don't want to "share" that with anyone. I would NEVER tell my h that. So I cannot imagine at all telling him that I think of some other guy IN OUR LIVES TODAY...wth? Don't go there. Please. Totally NOT a good idea. It's one thing to share fantasies, but it's a whole other thing to name names and faces....ALL the fantasies you share, IF you are into that, imho, should involve ONLY each other. Just my thoughts on that. I really feel strongly about that. I would feel so insecure if my h told me he thinks of a nurse from work or a patient or whatever....NOT a turn on for sure. Wow, that would sooo undermine me. In our 28 years we have never said anything like that to eachother. (( Okay, I HAVE told him funny dreams where I'm married to a guy from some tv show OR I am married to Brad Pitt -- but then Angelina comes home WITH Jennifer Aniston...))

Back rubs that do NOT lead to sex, feel like loving gestures to me, btw. Doesn't mean we won't ML later... But I've had surgery there so it means a lot to me if h wants to comfort me or show me affection without always having an agenda. I would not see it as manipulative if it wasn't.

(( j ))

[aliveandkicking]

All those things have been building up my confidence and self-esteem, although I didn't really suffer in that dept. until the bomb.

You sure about that?

Ok. Im going to try to let you in on a little secret...I don't think you could have won with your W. I think she has huge issues and you've been dancing around trying to fit a square into a hole. That is IMO.

So, in the areas you can change, you have. You are doing things to improve your self esteem but, you still come off here as a little insecure (normal for an LBS but how long can that go on?)

I was really rude and crass in one of my other posts to you...I wanted to apologize but didn't get to it. You didn't call it out. You didn't say "hey, AK, thanks for helping me out here, I really appreciate it but can you tone it down a bit?" You kind of said "thank you ma'am may I have another?" And I'm not judging because you're looking for help and I'm trying to give it but I want you to really explore if that is what you are doing in R with W. Because it wont work.

You didn't destroy your M, you don't need her to show you who you need to be or how you need to change. She gave you some input which is great, I'm sure you played your part. But I don't think you've scratched the surface of who Stuck is.

When you are ready (this is your life after all), I think you should think of some reasonable boundaries for yourself in your R.

Many have recommended the book Co-dependent No More and I think you should read it and I probably should as well.

Can you make an agreement to not post about W for 24 hours or more? I swear it helps.

Can you try for three days to just stop with spinning and obsessing and analyzing (pot meet kettle) and really just be you?

The only way I know how to do that is to accept the D...per SP. We all want our Ms to work out. But, the fear is tempering your behavior and she can smell that.

How about this? If she wasn't more afraid than you, she would have done it already. She is scared, confused, lost...and you? You are ok. Does she want a man who could live without her? That may be harder for her to swallow than having a man who can't...it is such a mindf*ck.

All you are left with is what to do about YOU. Your work as I see it is to really stop trying to figure her out and please try to take yourself to the worst case scenario and make peace with it.

I'll be baaaaack...

BTW- You and many of the men on here really inspire me and give me assurance that there are so many who care deeply about their commitments, their families and their own personal growth. Really, I had all but lost faith in men...

[givingitmyall]

Aak, there are lots of us men who do care and who take our wedding vows VERY seriously.

Been watching this thread today. Wow, you guys have been busy!

[aliveandkicking]

Well, I'm working on a website right now so I can't resist the temptation to come here...might had, I didn't get much work done.

[MrBond]

Everyone,

Thanks for today's discussion. It did help me some directions and attitudes to change so I thank you all.

Aside from myself, this is going to refer to my W so bear with me. It was interesting to get a female perspective on what my W is doing and how she is acting mainly because it allows me to listen to her in the times that we do talk. And I mean really listen and how when she says something, she's meaning something else. This does allow me to talk to her compassionately and see what her unmet needs may be. I just file those things away in my head for when I need to bring them up.

This is more of a communications tool for me which I have found useful and from the help of many of the posters here, I have learned how to really listen to what she's trying to say. It's like a universal translator. I don't think I would have been able to truly understand what she was saying with just my MALE ears.

So, aside from that it is going to continue to be all about me where I live the best life that I (bold) want.