Can anyone answer this? Part 8

[sandi2]

I'm back. I know that was a long post and this one will be also, but that is how "I" have to do it to get things covered....so hope you can hang with me here.

I only remember the good times and all the nice things he did for me.

I see this compared to when a loved one dies. It seems no matter how rotten they may have been in life, we still only remember the good times b/c we are "grieving" the loss. I think it is part of our human make-up. In some ways you are still "blinded" b/c of your love (be it healthy or not) for the man you knew in the beginning. I think you are vry wise to be examining yourself, even though it is painful....I think it is necessary to pick this apart so you can figure out the truth and be able to heal and to grow from the experience. But, let me throw this in so you won't think that you are in any way adnormal, okay? That is why I shared my personal closeness and told you about my sister (which I barely touched on that subject and will get back) and about my daughter's experience. In some cases we can look at their background and snd think that is "why" they fell for a guy that ended up abusing them and that they couldn't seem to see the stitch for what it truly was.....even though others may have tried to tell them. That one is easy. It is when the woman comes from a close, strong nit, loving family who was raised with strong moral and Christian values that go into a R that the entire family can "see" the man is not what she needs.........that is what is puzzling for me. I think we could look at each case or person as "individual" b/c they are separate and each life is unique simply b/c it is "their" life. I'm sure a professional could "lump" you with some big fancy name and say that is the reason you fell for this man even b/c he was a bully, over-bearing, obnoxious, selfish, loud , etc. But this is "your" life and it's very personal so I would think you want personal answers.

I wonder, and would love to know, how he acts to our friends and if he is hisself or another person.

Based on the men I have known who come to mind when I read about your XH, I am sure the he puts on a "front" and talks loud and is blusterous in everything he says and does b/c he is trying very hard to convince people around him that he is doing just great......couldn't be better.......glad you left....was the best thing that ever happen.....yada, yada, yada. You see, a man like him is having to cover up "reality" so much that it takes all of his time and energy trying to make people think he is this big tough guy who is just fine and dares anyone to get into his way......when the truth is he is scared to death to face his own demons and certainly isn't about to let anybody else see them. He would go down fighting before he allowed himself to look deep inside at "why" he is the way he is. He would almost do anything before he could do that, b/c he has been so many years in this "state" or "conditions" or frame of mind or .....I don't know what word to use for it. He started out trying to be somebody who he really wasn't b/c he had been either hurt, mistreated, exposed to bad parenting, or other early childhood experiences that left him feeling that he was alone and nobody would love him if they could see him weak and vulnerable. He felt he had to get his bluff in on others or they would always take advantage of him. The way you described his father makes me believe that his dad was a lot like him and made him feel worthless when he was a boy. The irony is that so many times, the son turns out to be just like that angry, over-bearing father he knew when he was growing up. I would bet his dad treated your MIL the same way your XH treated you b/c most learn from their role models and look who your XH had for a role model! Now I can't say that it is always one of the parent's fault when a man grows up to be like your XH. I don't know that to be a fact each time.........again I am using personal knowledge of what I say. It may have been something else, but I feel very strongly that it was something from his early years that affected the personality he would take on and how he would treat those around him. He may even treat people different based on their connection or R with him. He may show a degree of respect to a few chosen. But, I bet the majority of people....he constantly finds fault with them and blames life's unfairness and is critical about every situation and every person he comes in contact with.

I need to figure out if my marriage was normal or if I let my xh by with way too much.

I think it depends on what you consider to be "normal". I think you are probably refering to what we see as being the typical all American marriage and family. I don't know if anybody has a family like the old classic shows on TV use to protray. That is not reality. But, I know what you are saying and I would feel the same way. Based on what you have stated, I think you were wanting to be loved and "belong" to somebody so badly that it would have been the perfect opportuntiy for a man like your XH to step in and take advantage of your vulnerability. By the time you met him, his personality traits were well ingrained and he was "set" pretty much in his ways, however, as things transpired over time.....it took its toll and he reacted in a negitive way....always blaming some other person or the system or whatever for his "bad luck". He never gets a break, right? He sees himself as a person down on his luck that "society" and "the system" is out to get, and therefore he has to bite them in the butt first. His pride was hurt a great deal when things started going downhill. He finds his self respect or esteem in his job and the status that the position brought to him. When in a position of authority, it makes him feel stronger and more in control. "Control" is vital to him. He may have felt very vulnerable when he was young and could not "control" his environment or whatever he had to endure and as a result he decided (maybe unconsciously) to always be in control of those who were under his authority. He saw you as being under his authority b/c he was the H and you were the
"weaker vessel" b/c you were his "wife". That made you his properity and he felt he could show the world what a "real man" he was by the way he controlled you. The fact that you had enough spunk to express your feelings is a plus for you but I'm sure it caused much anger in him b/c he did not know how to deal with it in an intellegent way. All he felt was a rage and stress when things went against "him" or his authority. That is why I feel that somebody (like his dad) who was an authority figure in his life was too hard on him. He must have felt defensive and all he knew was to try to build some type of "protective" shell and pretend to be this awful person until he actually became an awful person. If we start out shaping our personalities in all the bad ways and allowing negative emotions to be in control of us, then in time it does take over and we have truly become that individual. That is JMHO and others may certainly disagree. That is not to say that a person CANNOT CHANGE IF THEY WANT TO BADLY ENOUGH! Just as the man who married the red-headed German woman who makes him walk the line.......he is like a totally different person now. I don't know enough of the details about their MR to understand why it took this srong no-nonsense woman to show him he was not going to walk all over her like he did his first wife......but it did the trick! And the sad thing is that his first wife was/is a very sweet lady. But you see......she "allowed" him to treat her this way until he was totally out of control and she could not take his abuse any longer. She was living in hell and had to get out of it in order to save her own idenity as a human beging. Her self esteem was so low that the only way she had to go was "up".

The same thing could be said about my sister and the relationships she has had with men all through the time she started dating through more than one marriage (I might add). When I think back on those steady boyfriends she had and the men she was with.......every single one of them treated her like cr@p. Now why do you think that was? Why on earth would a person who was pretty and had a little bit of sense (not much) but a little, would let these boys and men treat her so disrespectfully? Oh, sure when she first met them, they were nice and won her over....but in a short time, she would be experiencing the same old stuff. It was like she never learned from her mistakes. I want you to learn from your experience, Renee.

I MYSELF need to know if I was "like your sister". I need to try and figure out if my husband was this way all along and I didnt see it.

In the beginning, he probably wasn't to the degree he became. Give yourself a bit of credit for believing you would not have married a total monster. I don't think he is a "monster" now. I think he has some type of problem that goes very deep and as a result he became what he was with you in the MR. If he truly had changed b/c of this new GF and b/c he "knows" he can't treat her like he did you, then it proves he can control his ways. Doesn't make you feel better knowing he took his bad feelings out on you.....and you were there to love him and support him. But look at "him" as being the bad guy here.....not you. You wanted to be loved. You "thought" you had a normal MR. Again, we all have our own ideas of what "normal" is. My sister has never been treated any other way by any man she was intimate with, so in a weird sense......she thinks it is normal....for "her" life. She knows that our mother, me, our GM and none of the other females in our family (except for that one R my daughter had) has ever allowed any man to mistreat them. The women in our family have what I think is a normal self-respect and some may have a need for stronger self esteem, but the majority of people feel that way and it doesn't mean you accept an abusive R just b/c your self esteem is low.

Speaking of self esteem, I believe that men who are like your XH have very low self esteem. You would think that a woman who looks up to them and shows open adoration for them would over come any low self esteem......but my sister almost gets sickening with her laying all this "male ego food" at my BIL's feet and he just treats her worse. So, go figure. It seems to almost be a law of life. If you bow down to people....or they "think" that is what you are doing.....it seems to be the "animal" in them to be disrespectful. Doesn't say much for mankind, does it? Women like my sister see it as showing "love" and hopes that her H will give her a little in return. It never seems to work that way. The sad thing is she tried for years and years to make her family think that it was all different when they were alone. Yeah, right! If a man shows disrespect for his wife in public....you can bet your rear end that he doesn't respect her in private, either. Perhaps some women do not understand the difference in love and respect. Maybe they were trying so hard to receive "love" that it totally turned the H off and he begin to treat her sloppy as a result. We could speculate for hours and might not hit the target of your stitch......but as you said, you need to try. Maybe in the conversation, you will see something that opens the picture and you will know how things transpired and led to the end of the M. I believe you certainly need closure in order to continue to have any kind of happiness in life. I find that it help to be able to understand why things happened. However, in some matters, Renee, we may never understand and when that happens, we can only "accept" what happened. We don't have to agree or like it, but we need to accept it and move forward. That was why I was trying in the beginning to get you to stop focusing so much on your past and the M with your XH, but now I see where you really need to try to sort this out. I hope it will be a tool for healing.

Well, I am not sure I know how to express in words how I see it in my mind. In his own personal issues, he became a over-bearing, loud, obnoxious, and very selfish man who wanted complete control over his life. Whenever he felt he was not in control of you......when you would talk back or try to stand up for yourself.....that is when he was fighting the only way he knew how and that was to blame you for what he was really was! It is so ironic, isn't it? Again, please do not take what he said about you as being the truth! He simply was losing the tight control and didn't know how to keep you in his power, so like a immature child, he spouts off. Bullies do that too, you know.

BUT my weakness was, when he threaten to leave, I FREAKED INSIDE...

That was his trump card. His last resort was to threaten to leave. I think by that time, he was probably too far gone in his own personal problems. I doubt that you could have done anything. In fact, if you had left him, it may have shook him up a bit, but don't know that it would have had lasting effects b/c the two of you would have re-entered the same MR and he would only pick up where he left off. It took an entirely different woman with a different way to change things. That is not to say you are less than she is. It is just "different" in his eyes. Maybe he learned something very emotionally deep in his experience with you but he would not admit that to ANYONE!! He still has those deep seated issues about how he represents himself to his friends and associates. He must continue to be this big strong MALE.

no I DID NOT want to be left alone again

This part is what breaks my heart! I don't know if you said that intentionally or not, but it clearly goes back to you feeling left alone and forsaken as a child. But, you do NOT have to depend on a man to have you as "his" wife or to even love you. Yes, we all hope to have somebody in our life that loves us.....I don't mean that. But as little girls, I think a lot of us grew up with that storybook living happily ever after idea that if only we found our "Prince" then we would be loved forever and always be taken care of. How many times does it happen in real life like that? I'm thinking never. (Unless you watch the Housewives from New Jersey on TV.....LOL.)

SO this is what he held over my head. He knew this scared me and he used it to his advantage.

So, you are beginning to see it for how it really was......or have you always known in your heart....but couldn't face it?

You told of the different ways your XH helped you around the house, etc. That is great b/c it means he has some good qualities. I suppose the guy that my D had that abusive R with was/is the only man I knew who I could not find one decent thing good about him. He was just plain mean and hateful and nobody I know ever liked him. My D will tell you that he absolutely brainwashed her and took advantage of her vulnerability b/c she was coming out of a divorce. She looks back and wonders who that girl was! It was not her usual self. In some ways, I think she was in rebellion about some issues that I won't get into. My sister started out in rebellion in high school and dated boys that our parents probably would never have "approved" of if they had known the truth about them. So, in her years of rebellion, she set forth a "pattern" of what turned out to be very, very bad choices of men to become involved with. I doubt she even realizes that fact. She has had to turn a deaf ear to us and even to herself in order to continue to stay in her stitch. She tried to leave once and he made her feel forced to go back. So, see, he still has that control over her.

When we argured about something he would say I am done talking and that is it end of discussion. He KNEW EVERYTHING about anything, if he didnt he would make it up and make you believe it.

Very typical of his personality type.

BUT most of all he lied alot.

Oh yes, I know about that part also. Perhaps it is a cover up of their own low self esteem........but for whatever the reason.....it is wrong and certainly not healthy for them, not to mention the people around them.

I was talking to a family member and she asked me if my xh kept me away from them. I thought about this and I think he had so much influence on me that I would do anything he said.

The same is true with my BIL. In fact, he even turned their children against our mother and me. Why would anybody do that? He would convince them that his mother (who lived across the country and never contacted them) was the better GM and I was not a good aunt who loved them. It absolutely broke my heart but I could not change what he distroyed. I tried for a long time, but he eventually influenced them so much that they never come around my house or see me except at holiday meetings. All they talk about is "their daddy" which would be okay if they were small children, but we are talking are almost grown. He is nothing but a bag of hot air and he has these kids convinced he is some kind of hero........yeah, right....a cartoon hero! If a rational person sits back and looks at him, they know instantly he is a joke. He is all talk and bluff! Well, he got his bluff in on his family in the early years, and now they have the price to pay for it.

Sandi, I think when I got close to a friend, he got scared that maybe they would influence me so much, i would trun on him.

I can't copy and paste all the things you said that fall into line of this same senerio type of personality. However, everything you describe is totally on target with my BIL. Isn't that something? Isn't it something--that you came here and we found each other? But rest assured that you are not the only woman, by a long shot, that goes through this! I just happen to be one that is talking to you about this problem.

Sandi, I know no other way of living. I know that I let him go and do whatever he wanted.

Oh sweetheart, I understand that. What happened in the past cannot be changed but you can learn from that and you can decide to figure out how to live a better future. I promise that you can do this if you want to badly enough.

I really do not want to stop here, but this post is so long, I guess I better and then come back later.

I'll pick back up.

Sandi