GETTING UN'STUCK'

[aliveandkicking]

"Yep, sounds familiar. I'm not trying to be snide but did you not anticipate your sex life dwindling after second baby? Given the first experience?"

Not really, because I didn't really figure out what the problem was after the first one. We just kind of went along with the flow and rolled with the changes and assumed that's just the way life is. Now I know better.

Get ready for some Kung Fu...WTF? You didn't think the lack of sex was related to the baby's birth and subsequent needs and your wife's physical and emotional and energy changes???

Come on. That is a tough one to buy. Enlighten me here.

[aliveandkicking]

Kid bed time. I'll be back.

[MrBond]

aak and 25,

Actually after she gave birth and even before, not to sound modest, but I think I did pretty well in terms of seeing to her needs for the pregnancy. I just felt that was my job.

I cooked, cleaned, changed diapers, fed the baby, let her sleep in, and even got up in the middle of the night the same time she did to keep her company until she went back to bed.

And in terms of the ML at that time, I told her that we wouldn't do it until she was ready. So it was about 2 months after the second birth that we had sex again because she felt ready.

I guess after the second one, the sex was getting less frequent. I honestly can't remember when the last time she initiated. Although it could also be because she was getting emotionally attached to the OM. It was a couple of months right after our second Ds one year birthday that she told me that she had feelings for her boss and wanted to D.

Just prior to that, she would take a drink to "get in the mood" and I told her I wish she wouldn't keep doing that. After the bomb, she flipped it around and said I "forced" her to drink to get her horny. Now that's warped. I don't know if she's now conditioned herself to think that she could only want sex with me if she drank. Since she's moved back, she hasn't touched alcohol in my presence at all even casually.

"You didn't think the lack of sex was related to the baby's birth and subsequent needs and your wife's physical and emotional and energy changes???"

hey what can I say? I'm a guy. Plus, since I left it up to her when she felt ready, I figured it was okay.

[aliveandkicking]

Hun, you know I adore you but go back and read your first description of life after baby one. I know you did great, but go back and read how you told us you felt.

And, no, the kid's aren't asleep, I'm just obsessed now with your sitch.

[25yearsmlc]

amen to ak's statement's Stck

and we LIKE you...so this is a 2 x 4, okay? And if she wished she could have stayed home...um, that's HUGE b/c we all feel it as women. I'm a "career women's libber" blah blah blah and had no idea that children would be so demanding/wonderful etc and yes I DID want to stay at home after awhile. And after our 3rd one, I did. H resented it a bit and that was a whole other issue but for now, suffice to say that to a woman, childrearing is a big big thing and I am grateful to h for enabling me to stay at home when I did. (I'll tell him that more often too) but in truth since he was gone SO MUCH, It seemed insane to have me working full time too (so they'd have no parents with them...) Anyhow, it irked me a lot to have h talk about money when I was at home as if I was home eating bon bons while he slaved...

Being a sahm is a big deal and it's humbling and an honor and I recall people saying when I stopped practicing law for a few years to stay at home, WTH are you doing? (Mostly women said that btw...) I was "not rewarded" by society, but was amply rewarded by the children we have. H missed so much. Glad I didn't miss all of those moments, but I think you are really glossing over stuff that she gave up by going back to work. Easy for you to say "not too hard for her to go back to work..." and as it turns out it wasn't worth it to you. But anyhow, enough for now.
You have some thinking to do and btw, maybe don't analyze her so much as work on yourself okay? Lots of mind reading going on...

((( hugs )))

j-

[aliveandkicking]

So it was about 2 months after the second birth that we had sex again because she felt ready.

I can almost bet that 2 months was too soon and that she resented it. Sorry for the mind-reading but you've got a W who wont talk to you so why not? Can't hurt to ponder what went on between you two...and, your part.

This is not to point fingers, you've described a very common situation and you are obviously a good guy but you've got to get to your part if you are going to change anything.

For one, you've got to see that from a woman's perspective (at least mine and it seems 25), you're glossing over some whoppers. I'm glad we're discussing this because it is nearly impossible for you to see it. You know how awesome you were!!! You waited two damn months for sex. Guess what? For many women postpartum is extremely stressful physically and emotionally. And of course there's exhaustion.

AND, you have a two year old! That is barely out of the realm of postpartum.

Can you have an honest talk with your wife about how she feels about working? Maybe there's nothing there but maybe there is. Prior to, I think you should be aware of what your financial limitations are. If she did reveal that she longs to stay at home, could you compromise, could she find a work at home opportunity or work less hours. My instinct is that this is a big one but who knows?

Going dark to me would be iffy. You could try it but for me, it just hit on my insecurities when H pulled away from me. Now, leaving, that was an earthquake and it woke me up, not necessarily to what I needed to do for him but to get out of my funk and wise up to the state of my life and my own complacency.

You have a two year old. I do not think you should leave but, I think there needs to be some major shifts and the work thing could be one.

In her state NEVER accept her first reaction as her true feelings...you are in many ways her adversary. SO, even if you come up with the best idea, she may be pissy and then low and behold, a week later she's mentioning some work alternative that her friend suggested. ETC.

You've got your work cut out for you (who of us doesn't?)

What are YOUR thoughts on this Stuck?

[aliveandkicking]

First off, I doubt she was interested in boss for sex (mind-reading, projecting, speculating, I like breaking the rules ). I think she wanted to feel womanly and like she was "enough" AND, I think she resented being there and was easy prey.

I don't know if she's now conditioned herself to think that she could only want sex with me if she drank.

Well, sadly, it got to the point where I felt nauseous when we ML. How awful is that??? A drink would help but I didn't want to drink that much. And what it did to his self-esteem, yikes!

The good news Stuck, it is not lack of attraction (trust me, it all came back after the bomb and missing him ). It was the wall between us and the adversarial nature of our R. I did not feel safe with him. There may be some warped trauma insecurity abandonment thing too.

I think, at least in my sitch, I felt like H could have sex even if we were loathing each other and the sky was falling. Somehow, I needed to feel like we were on the same team and I didn't. I felt like he was just unloading...but enough about that sad story.

Another idea. Do you have a list of things that need to be done? House related, kid related, anything? Can you think of things where you can in a very very subtle way work as a team? Just thinking out loud here.

[MrBond]

25yearsmlc,

No problem with the 2x4. At least they're not as painful as the ones you've given Kev. : )

Well I do wish that she could be a SAHM, but we can't afford it. We live out here in Hawaii where the average price for a small 2 bedroom home is like $500K.

I asked her before the bomb that if we had the means, would she not work. She told me that she still would because she likes to keep busy.

She does understand the financial logistics of it and I've been trying my best to take on alot of the housework since she gets off later than I do. The kids like to climb all over her though, literally, and she pampers them so much that she hasn't taken any time for herself. Even something as simple as watching tv, she would let them watch the Disney Channel rather than something she'd prefer. When I mention things like that to her, she'll say, "oh I don't mind", then she'll try to sneak away to watch tv in the other room before the kids track her down there.

I've told her time and time again that she needs to have time for herself and relax. I've gotten her spa treatments, but she doesn't like others touching her body. I've told her I'll watch the kids whenever she wants, but she never takes me up on it.

I even tell her that she can go to the gym or shopping but she'd rather stay home with the kids or do something with them.

Her life revolved around the kids so much that I can see how I was seen as an extra burden. But what more could I do? Isn't she the one that would have to change her way of thinking? Or do you have a suggestion on how I can take the burden off her?

I really think that's why the OM was so appealing because he was able to be there without the kids around. I think she enjoyed the fact that he was much older because then she could be the one who was being taken care of.

I also think that because of his "status" she enjoyed being a part of a different life.

I've tried to do that, but right now I feel that she just sees me in that role as dad/friend.

Money also doesn't really matter to her. While we were physically separated, I would still pay the bills and she would just give me her paycheck to help pay for them and I would give her some spending money. She never even asked what our bills' amounts were.

You're right about the mindreading though. I've been so used to doing it that it's become habit. Some say I'm pretty perceptive at picking up on people's problems and I'm always the one that people went to for advice. The only person who never did was my W. I once remarked to her that even total strangers come up and tell me their problems, but not her. This was pre-bomb.

[MrBond]

aliveandkicking,

"Hun, you know I adore you but go back and read your first description of life after baby one. I know you did great, but go back and read how you told us you felt."

I know, I know. Like I said, I'm just a dumb man. : ) But hey, I'm willing to learn. I probably did the right motions, but EXPECTED something in return in the end. I just didn't realize it at the time. I've learned about expectations alot lately. I've learned how to truly give without expecting anything in return.

You're right about her seeing me as her adversary. I do get that hostility from time to time and she never opened up why, but I can see how my actions had built up resentments from your post.

I did mention to her about post-partum before and she told me that she was planning to see a C about it. She never did and when I brought it up again, she accused me of forcing her to see a C. I snapped back and reminded her that it wasn't me who suggested it, but her. She got quiet after that.

I see what you mean about the security thing. I think that's what OM represented to her. He's older, much more successful as a doctor. Combine that with what I read in her "feelings" note where she sounded like a schoolgirl, maybe she did see him as someone who could take care of her (see my post to 25 above).

One thing about the sex though. I asked her once (pre-bomb) if she ever fantasized about anyone while we were having sex, she was quiet and I said "I bet I know who" and I mentioned her boss. She sheepishly said "yes". Ugh.

Going Dark would send the wrong message I think because it would be inconsistent with what I'm doing so far. And I've gotten us to friendly ground.

I'm going to do what sandi, robx, coach and others have said and treat her like a good friend. Just be friendly with her and not too friendly.

I like your idea about the family projects working together. I'll think of something and give it a shot. It just has to be the right project though.

[MrBond]

Okay, since I'm on a roll tonight I might as well throw out another thought.

A month before the bomb, my W asked me why I've always believed that you could love more than one person. I told her that it was just human nature. And that we have different people that come into our lives that we are attracted to, but it's our choice and commitment to stay with one person. She told me again that she didn't understand and asked again. I eventually told her that it was something I believed and that I can't explain it to her any more if she doesn't believe it.

My W sees things in black and white. You can only love ONE person. I've always seen things in shades of gray.

Now of course, she says that she never loved me, that we were wrong for each other, in her "feelings" note, she wrote how her boss was true love, etc. I should have picked up something from that conversation.

What are some thoughts about that?

Incidentally, I know that she's got a nursing exam coming up, so I went ahead and ordered her a bunch of study materials for her to be delivered to her working place as a surprise. I'm wondering what she's going to think about that. I know her job is important to her. I think because it validates her personal achievements since she doesn't have any hobbies or interests at home.