Dealing With Ambivalence

[LG nm12]

Ohhhhhh, Baggy. Excellent example.

When it comes to pretty much everything... HAVE AN OPINION. I don't mean be bossy and opinionated. I mean, know yourself enough to have an opinion and be proud to show yourself by voicing your opinion. If you have an opinion most of the time, saying "I don't care" once in a while is no big deal.

Not having an opinion is opting out. It's making the woman decide and lead.

Lucky

[Vigilant1]

Here's a hint for ya, V, right from the description of the "Being the Strong Man a Woman Wants" book.

"To women: He's sensitive, romantic and tries hard to please you, but when there's a problem he seems oblivious. When you ask for input on a decision, he says, "It's up to you."

My personal bane: Restaurant decisions.

"What restaurant do you want to go to tonight, hon?," she asks.

"I don't care. What are you in the mood for?"

BZZZZZZzzzzzz! -10 Alpha-Male points! Try again, Nice Guy....

But, but...I *honestly* don't care! I'm a simple guy! I hate cooking! Food's food! I'm good with a LOT of different cuisine! Whaffle, whaffle, whaffle....

-- B.

Heh.. I had already figured this one out. And it really is true: I was Mister "Whatever you'd like, dear". Now I think for a moment and come up with an idea, even if I'm not really dead set on it. Doing this at least avoids the whaffle trap. The difference is noticable too - it really is.

B. - do you have any other "low hanging fruit" like this? I'm looking for more things like this that I can do right away. Now I always try to lead. For example, moments ago W said "the Boy (4 y/o) says he doesn't want to take guitar lessons anymore, what should we do?"

Previously, my answer would have been something like "I don't care/I'm not sure, what do you think we should do?". Today I boldly said "He's only 4. If he doesn't feel like taking guitar lessons, let's end them. Maybe he will feel more like doing it when he's 5." Wife agreed, problem solved. I was involved, stayed involved, and led a little bit. It didn't seem so hard. But I'm sure that there's a ton more that I have to work on. Permission seeking/approval seeking are so insidious - I have a hard time catching these...

[LG nm12]

If something is broken in the house, swiftly fix it or have it fixed without dragging her into it. Don't just let it sit there or wait for her to bring it up. Show you're in control of the situation and that you're not letting ANYTHING fall apart... the marriage, the roof, the faucet, etc. That is, unless she's the handy one in the house. If neither of you are handy, get help from a friend or a neighbor or hire someone.

[DanceQueen]

Make sure you know what the child's doctor's name is and how to get ahold of him/her, and that you know what insurance card to use, etc. Then if something comes up, YOU can quickly step in and say "I'm all over it, made him an appointment for tomorrow".

When a man lets the wife take control over all of the deepest parts of caregiving, he shows her he is "incapable" of dealing with big issues or emergencies. Bad.

Open doors, pay compliments, but don't expect things back. You do these things because you are a gentleman and because you ooze confidence. When someone oozes confidence, they do not need to be stroked and are happy to stroke their wife for no reward. See, a "cad" or a "pirate" will happily stroke your wife at any time and he knows that the stroking itself is his reward...YOU NEED TO BE that confident. Does that make sense? We get turned on when a "cad" is coming on to us because he doesn't care if we don't. He's coming at us that way no matter what the outcome is, BECAUSE he is serving himself, which is a turn on to us.

If you are church going, take the lead and make sure the family goes to church sometimes or more often, or whatever you feel is right in your family. If you are not church going, then make sure you take time to take your family on short day trips to see museums or something that promotes culture. "Show" your family what you want them to see and learn and experience. This involves you being interested in something, taking initiative, and also being a leader, in a way that your family benefits from.

Keep your vehicle clean, and stand up straight, smile a lot, appear confident. Wear good shoes and make sure they look sharp.

When you catch yourself seeking approval, just calmly back down and take a moment to regroup. Don't fall all over yourself to fix it. Remember that its confidence that we women go ga-ga for, so if you make a mis-step, don't overstep the correction. Don't watch her face constantly for her reactions to things. Do read up on communication and body language to help you understand her, but do not "watch" her face...we women know this feeling. It means he can't make a decision and wants someone else to do it for him. Sometimes we love it - to be included in decisions - and even sometimes, we need to make the decision without you. But for the most part, take the lead and don't "watch" her reactions, just read her real communication.

Drop the being nervous, too, if that is a habit for you. Develop skills to manage it

Good luck and keep up the good work!

DQ

[Bagheera]

One final thing, on top of the what the ladies have said:

You can't lead what you don't know about.

So take an active interest in ALL aspects of your wife's life and that of your child. Her work, her hobbies, her day to day activities. It doesn't matter if *you* have an interest in it or not -- the importan thing is to show that you care about her...all of her...such that when you try to care FOR her, she will trust you and let you do it. My wife and I touch base verbally with each other at least three times each day: once in the moring before I head out, once during the day itself (lunch time or thereabouts), and then a longer "debriefing" each evening when I come home. I know what she has planned, what she's doing, and where she's going, AND I keep track of what the kids are up to also. I still forget things from time to time, such as the occasional school play ("That's tonight! Alright, I'll catch an earlier bus home."), but I've improved in all of these areas by 150% over the past couple of years, and by touching base multiple times each day, we can keep each other on the same page with reminders when needed.

Another example: my wife does all kinds of crafts, and right now, her latest interest is in card making: *fancy* homemade card making. Personally, my 'crafting' skills ended in elementary school when I no longer had to cut up pieces of colored construction paper with safety-scissors and do things with uncooked macaroni and Elmer's glue. However, I can still appreciate and follow the gorgeous, creative work that my wife does -- and she *really* appreciates having someone to share it with and bounce ideas off of.

When you first start doing this stuff, your wife may act rather annoyed with it. She's used to doing everything on her own without your input, so to her, it's like another cook just walked into her "kitchen." Ramp things up gradually, and be persistent and patient. She may be annoyed at your interference in her solo act at first, BUT she'll really start to appreciate the extra pair of hand "in the kitchen" once she gets used to it, as well as your expressed appreciation of her "cooking."

Good luck,

-- B.

[Vigilant1]

Something snapped in me last night. Yesterday after MC (in the context of "physical affection") she said something like "I just don't feel that way about you". This did not go over at all well internally. NMMG already had me realizing that I'm like a little puppy dog, waiting for scraps of love to fall off the table. I realized that doing affection for appearance's sake (which is what it is on her end, I believe) is very harmful to my self respect and self confidence. Nothing is better.

So I stopped being affectionate. She noticed right away. Last night she asked "So.. you're giving in to distance?", and I said "yeah, I think so." This morning SHE initiated an R talk outside of therapy even though we're not supposed to (interesting that it's okay for her to do, ain't it??) and told me:

1. She felt like I am "not her friend" to withdraw affection.
2. She thought we were gradually becoming more affectionate and trusting and this takes us in the wrong direction.
3. I asked her what she WANTS (wrt affection). Again, she was very vague. She eventually suggested that SHE INITIATE for a while, and she was exasperated. AND THEN...

I told her "Our son is the one who is hurt the most by this, because he has to live in such a tense, sterile environment."

HOLY CRAP did this make her mad. This was the end of the R talk. She ran off to coop at preschool with S. No physical contact all morning before she left, but I was not seeking any.

My best friend says it's past time to stand up for myself. I really have to agree. And right now I don't care if it "wrecks the relationship". I don't want the relationship as it is anyway. I can't coddle this indifference. This has to change because it's poison to my soul.

I don't know if what I have done here is right or wrong "strategically". But it's what my heart told me to do. And this time I listened.

[LG nm12]

Hi Vigilant,

In my opinion, I think it's great that you are breaking through the barriers of communication and laying it all out on the line.

I don't know if I agree with your decision to withhold affection. Withholding is never a healthy thing to do, IMO. I would rethink this and try to combine loving affection (when authentic, that is) with brave, honest communication.

It is good that she knows what is at stake. It is good that she is pushed into discomfort and forced to reckon with the 500lb gorilla in the room.

I'm glad you shook it up. Anger is good. Anger is passion.

I wonder if you might be able to revisit to affirm your love and desire for her, and when she softens a bit, parlay this into initiating (if that's what you want at that moment?) Hmmm.

Lucky

[Bagheera]

I told her "Our son is the one who is hurt the most by this, because he has to live in such a tense, sterile environment."

HOLY CRAP did this make her mad.....

V,

*Never* use the children as a bargaining chip or a "guilting mechanism" against your wife. This is about you, and her, and your relationship, so keep the focus of the R talks/discusisons there. The "look what a lousy parent you're being" attack/criticism is a low-blow, and will not result in anything constructive.

Have I recommended John Gottman's The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work to you before? The chapters regarding how to have NON-destructive disagreements and discussions are priceless.

I'm not saying you shouldn't stand up for yourself. I'm not even saying that you shouldn't be able to withdraw into the man-cave and regroup from time to time (although women generally *hate* this) --> you might even just tell her "I just need some time to myself to think and regroup." But you do need to be able to express yourself and get your point across in a way that (a) doesn't make her feel attacked and in need of defending herself, and (b) has the best chance of having her actually *hear* what you're saying.

Don't fuss at her the way she fusses at you: she has some correcting to do in this area too. One wrong communication method + another wrong communicatin method = distance, hurt feelings, and zero understanding.

-- B.