Newly separated...spouse left, 4th thread

[antlers]

Do you see her when kids are exchanged? School events? Anything?

I love that you take responsibility. I think it is virtuous and necessary.

I don't believe that you have truly forgiven yourself and I don't blame you.

I have to ask, was there anything she could or should have done differently? I am not saying blame the victim if you were abusive. I am not saying accept or defend your sh*tty behavior. I am asking for the sake of understanding your dynamic (which requires two dysfunctional people to perpetuate), what was her part?

I'm assuming you were together for quite a long time. What was her deal?

I promise you, I am not trying to take your hard earned accountability from you AND if you want to change and live an love, you've got to be able to see this objectively and know that she did this dance with you. Ok, she's done, that's good! She's awake and changing and taking responsibility to some extent by saying "no more" (which is a gift to both of you because you suffered being the guy you were). So, now, it is your turn to recognized that even at your worst, you served her in some way (sorry if I'm offending some)...please take a look at the book I recommended, it is very eye-opening. Can you accept on any level that she needed to go through whatever that was and so did you?

As for the loss and regret, we are ALL there, regardless of perceived degree of culpability. I had a friend who knows H say to me tonight that I clearly did everything I could in my M. And I argued with her about it. Regardless, there's no way to lose that feels good, especially when someone else appears to be in control.

Here's a radical thought, maybe for you to be a better man and reach your potential and learn how to really love, you need to lose that R. And you can't be an improved you and be with an unchanged her. You know? Sorry if I'm rambling, I'm making sense to me. What you have described is a sick R with two participants. A total game change is necessary. Hopefully, she will see her part and it goes way beyond that she allowed herself to be with you. Trust me, she's got plenty to work on. And, what if she doesn't change, doesn't grow, wants to be angry and blame you forever? Is that the W that will fit with the super improved Antlers. I'm not messing around here. At some point the LBS has to stop being "left behind." It is just so unhealthy. I'm telling you, I personally can't take it anymore. I am sovereign individual not someone who only exists in the context of who I am to H. I know you get this but I feel you are still hanging on. When do you get to stop chiding yourself? You really do that. When do you start anew?

I heard a guy speak not too long ago. He had actually killed someone in an alcohol fueled rage. After he was released from prison, he went on to save an entire family from a burning building (happenstance), was pardoned and subsequently went back to school, got a masters in psychology and now counsels other addicts.

So what're you going to do?

No, we don't see each other when the kids are exchanged. She lets them out when she brings them over while she stays in her car, and I do the same when I bring them over to her place. We don't see each other at school events or anything else. We did initially after we separated, but she got to where she didn't want to do that anymore. We would initially sit together at games and events, but she got to where she didn't want to do that anymore.

I think it's necessary for me to take responsibility too! How could I learn if I weren't honest?

I am truly working on forgiving myself...I am getting it done with God's help and determination of my own. It is hard though because I lost someone very special (she would have walked on fire for me at one time)because of my bad decisions and bad behavior.

The only thing I can think of is that I wish she would have come to me and said specifically, "I'm gonna leave if things don't improve...I'm gonna leave if you don't change for the better". That never happened. When she decided to go, there was nothing I could say or do to stop her. I was verbally abusive, full of anger and resentment...and I won't rewrite our history to suit my needs. It was that way. We would have been in tall cotton had I been, in the past, the way that I am now. She would have loved me like she did, and I wouldn't have taken her for granted, and I would have given her the value, respect, and compassion that she deserved. I can't defend my behavior, as I was just plain wrong. As far as the dynamic goes, I think she hung in there far longer than any 20 women would have...and I don't think she was dysfunctional for doing it. She loved me. She has said since then, that she is also pissed at herself for staying in a bad situation for as long as she did. I hate it that 'this' had to happen for me to pull my head out of my a$$.

We were together for nearly two decades. Her deal was that she loved me and was committed to me and our marriage...and I drove her away. Basically. She got to where she couldn't do it anymore. I was caught so off guard when this happened, and when it started happening...and since then...she has been like a different person. She's like another person...other than the one I've known for the last twenty years.

I do see it objectively aliveandkicking, and I know that it takes two...but it was overwhelmingly my doing. That's just the fact of the matter. I've learned so much since then, and I am already a better man and father, and I will be a better partner. I loved her, tremendously. I just didn't have the necessary tools (knowledge ?) at the time to do the things and handle things the way that I should have. It's a hard thing to accept 'that'... but this 'has' happened, and she is changing, I suppose, as much as I am. Like I said...she is like a differnt person compared to the one I've known and lived with for all these years.

She loved me once, and she left me. I have a lot of remorse, especially now that I see how wrong I was! Losing her was bad enough, but losing her because of the way I treated her...well, that's a whole other world of pain and remorse. But I have to keep on living...and I am. I'm better, in many ways. I ask God to help her and my kids heal, and to help me heal. And I ask God to forgive me (and I believe He has), and to help her and our kids forgive me...and to continue to help me to forgive myself. I know one thing for certain...I am a better person now than I've ever been, and I'm a better father now than I've ever been. I'm back to 100% at work, and have been for some time. Yeah...she had a lot of control through all of this. And she's maintained lot of it too. She knows how I feel.

I don't want our old relationship anymore aliveandkicking. I want a new relationship, built on a new foundation...but I want it to be with my wife. She's changing too, as a result of this. Our marriage was unhealthy, and something needed to change...and she initiated big changes for us both. I don't doubt that she has stuff to work on too, but she has a lot of hurt and other negative emotions to work through. After talking to some other WAW on this board who are familiar with my situation...they say the amount of hurt and anger for her to deal with is huge, and it takes a long, long time for her to begin to heal. Many people here who have been keeping up with me know that I am so much better and stronger now than I was in the past. And I will continue to get better and stronger. She left me...it happened. I thought I would die from it. I didn't. I won't. I would like to spend the rest of my life with the mother of my children. Will I get another chance? I don't know! If I don't get to, I will go on without her. I'll have to, and I will. I do get what you're saying, but I'm not 'hanging on'...I'm simply still hopeful that my wife and I can be together in the future. Coach says you can still live your life under these circumstances without giving up hope...and that's what I'm doing. You can continue to grow and learn without giving up hope...and that's what I'm doing. I'm getting stronger and more powerful...slowly. I'm getting more secure and confident...slowly. I'm a work in progress. A really significant change for me has been to learn to be more compassionate, not only to others...but to myself also. Compassion is the antidote for anger, resentment, and abuse.

I'm going to continue to do what I have been doing aliveandkicking. I'm gonna be the best dad to my kids that I possibly can. I'm gonna be the best man that I possibly can. And I'm gonna be the best partner that I possibly can...at some point on down the line. I'm gonna continue to DB! But I'm not gonna give up on a relationship with my wife right now. I still have hope. It doesn't look too good. But Coach has a lot of positive perspectives, from personal experience, for when things look their darkest. I'm gonna be OK though, one way or the other.