Looking For Help

[Looking_For_Help]

I’m looking for help and support. So here it goes…

Married: 12 years (July 27, 1997)
Two Kids: D2 and S5
IANILWYAM: April 16, 2009
She states she wants a divorce: April 17, 2009
She was to file for a divorce on May 11 and did not.
Separated (same house, different rooms… I have asked nicely for her to move out on two occasions, but she has refused.)

My issues: unhappy, angry, critical, blameful, does not listen, too much computer time. I believe I got this way because I feel my wife has never put me #1 in her life. Who knows? I feel very lonely, but I still love my wife very much. I have felt this way for 10 years and have grown to accept this fact. By the way…she’s got plenty of issues as well, but I’m not focusing on them at this time.

Of course, when my wife stated she wanted a divorce, I said and did all of the wrong things from 4/6 through 5/6. I have been DBing since May 7. She initially couldn’t stand the sight of me. Over the past five weeks, she will now spend plenty of family time with me and the kids. We all go to the beach, community swimming pool, have dinner together etc. During these times I get eye-contact and smiles. Unfortunately, she is distant and cold when we are alone. She travels alot with business, so I only see her ¼ to ½ of the weekday. I am Mr. Mom and take care of child duties. I am currently working with my DB coach and she says I doing everything in a DB textbook manner. She says my strategy should be “kill her with kindness.” This would be a 180 for me. I just need to be patient.

I have become mysterious with my whereabouts. On June 9, I dressed very nice and sexy for my dance lessons. My wife’s jaw dropped when she saw how good I looked (I’ve been told by other woman that I’m a very handsome guy.) I have lost 20 pounds and have put on significant muscle during this time. She has noticed but not said anything. Anyways, she said “I hope you enjoy your date (sarcasticly)” as she was leaving for another trip. It appeared that she was somewhat jealous. I told her that I was not going on any dates. I laid down ground rules earlier that if either one of us were at a point of pursuing other people, that out of respect, we would just end our relationship and get a divorce. I am adamant about taking the high road on this point and being a great man. I’m o.k. with a divorce. I just do not want to be made a fool of. I have gotten to a point where I prefer to stay married to her, but I don’t need her. As I GAL, I am beginning to feel that there may be better women out there for me.

Last Saturday night, she came back home alone (back from mini-vacation with kids and her parents) to pack for another business trip. Instead of retreating back to her room, she sat down in the family room with me to chat. Just small talk and just thirty minutes…but it is another small step. I have been told to focus on the small things. The following morning she even said thank you when I made coffee for her.

Our annual family vacation to see my family (out of state) is June30-July6. Of course, my wife said that she would not be going. I told her that I understand. She stated that she was going to take a vacation by herself during this time. I said o.k. and did not interrogate. During the past 5 weeks she has been acting very suspicious. I suspect OM, but have no proof. I don’t want to ask b/c I don’t want to drive her in that direction. This point is very difficult for me. I don’t know how to handle this. I’ve read that affairs eventually are exposed, so don’t borrow trouble at this time. If she is having an affair, that’s o.k., but I would immediately stop trying to save my marriage and begin the pursuit of other woman. My wife is a classy lady and has never shown a propensity to chase other men. In fact, two weeks ago she broke down crying in fear of being alone for the rest of her life. My heart aches when I hear this.

I am craving for adult companionship. This being in “limbo” thing is very hard. We are both good individuals who simply have stopped communicating. I’ve been told to be patient, patient, and more patient.


MY 180s:
Spending alot of time with my kids (women don’t leave happy family-oriented men?).
Trying to be happy all of the time (even if I have to pretend…women don’t leave happy men?)
No arguing…always trying to agree
Lots of exercise (lost 20 pounds)
Ballroom dancing lessons
Helping around the house
Balancing the checkbook (our finances are still together)
Much less computer time
Stopped all criticism and blaming
Stopped saying I love you
Started to make coffee in the morning (I used to do this when we were first married)
Bought new clothing
Being mysterious with my whereabouts…trying pull away
Trying to become a man no woman can resist
Going to church and praying
Read as much as I can on this topic
Giving her plenty of space (I think I’m doing this)
Acting as if everything is going to be o.k.
Acting as if nothing bothers me
Taking out the trash (and putting a new bag in the can)
Tempering my anger
No phone calls (except when it’s about the children)
Always looking my best

I hope that my actions are being noticed. She said 8 weeks ago that “I will never change and that she will never open herself up for the potential for hurt again.” Her feelings for me are “forever buried six feet under.” The funny thing about DBing and GALing is that I feel I’m becoming a new person. Who knows, right? I hope my wife will notice this in time so that we can save our marriage.

To all that surf these threads…what do you think? Am I on the correct path? Do I just need to be patient with the process? Am I fooling myself? Please help.

Thanks,

Looking_For_Help (LFP)

[givingitmyall]

LFP

WOW. You weren't kidding...our sitch's are nearly identical. My W dropped the bomb on my 4 days after yours. Everything you said you have been through, down to her statement about you will never changes and she will never open up herself to that hurt again is identical to my sitch. My W told me no matter what I changed, she would never, ever, ever change her feelings. No one can say that and know it. So, I would not place much stock in what your W told you. The saying is don't believe anything they (WAW) say and only half of what they do.

I am adding your thread to my watched topics. I will share my experience and input in my sitch with you.

I am doing exactly the things you are doing. I, too, have seen small positive signs, but I have also seen W backtrack - inconsisitency. But I think the inconsistency is the only consitent right now.

Hang in there man. We will all get through this in one piece.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

LFH,

I think that's a real good list, and I agree with 90% of what you're doing. Most people who go the "kill them with kindness" route also combine it with needy/grabby, pursuing behavior, and you don't seem to be doing that and in fact are busy with GAL stuff and even "being mysterious" (which I highly recommend).

I hate to say this, but I do think there is another man in the picture, at some level. It may not be physical yet, but all the warning signs are there. Right now, your wife probably actually RESENTS your changes/improvements, and has a "You a-hole, why didn't you do this before???" attitude towards you, which is where the anger is coming from.

My advice would be to keep doing what you're doing, but try to confirm if there is OM in the picture, since you said that would be a dealbreaker. If it's not, then just keep doing what you're doing but BE PATIENT -- it's going to take several months before she trusts that your changes are for real.

WHATEVER you do, DON'T move out.

Puppy

[sandi2]

Hello,

I saw you post over on Givingitmyall's thread and thought I would stop by. Glad you came aboard and hope you are thick skinned b/c I saw a few things that jumped out at me and don't want you to think I'm picking on you, okay? Maybe you can set me straight about some things I wondered about.

I am going to be personal but most of us here on the board get pretty plain b/c people have to know what is going on in order to be helpful, so to come to the point, may I ask if your W has not been very "giving" in the sex department? I have a feeling that things have not been what they ought to be for a long time. Also, what do you look at when on the computer night after night? Are you into porn? A lot of men have confessed to turning to porn when their W would not have sex with them. Maybe it is what you said....or how you said it that made me wonder. Maybe this is why:

My issues: unhappy, angry, critical, blameful, does not listen, too much computer time. I believe I got this way because I feel my wife has never put me #1 in her life. Who knows?

You have made yourself sound like a great guy.....and I hope you are. Of course, we only have "your" side of the story. So, like it was told to me one time......"you" are the one that is here, therefore, you are the one we must talk to.

I have to say that I have too much pride to endure from my H what he endured from me. I think I may see that in you, as well.

I laid down ground rules earlier that if either one of us were at a point of pursuing other people, that out of respect, we would just end our relationship and get a divorce. I am adamant about taking the high road on this point and being a great man. I’m o.k. with a divorce. I just do not want to be made a fool of. I have gotten to a point where I prefer to stay married to her, but I don’t need her. As I GAL, I am beginning to feel that there may be better women out there for me.

I got to tell ya, if you don't change some of your attitude about this MR, I don't think it stands a chance! You are OK with a D....you just don't want to be made a fool of??? So, which is more important to you, a M or pride? You perfer to stay M to her, but you don't need her. Okay, is that your way of saying you might not care one way or the other? And now, you are thinking there are plenty of women out there for you! Well, you are probably right.....but will you fall in love with any of them......or does it matter at this point?

I don’t want to ask b/c I don’t want to drive her in that direction.

Oh, trust me.....your "asking" will not be what drives her to the OM!!

If she is having an affair, that’s o.k.

You've got to be kidding! In other words, the part that is "difficult" for you all goes back to being worried that you may be made a fool of. It's not that you would be destroyed that she fell for another man.....just don't make "you" look bad....right?

but I would immediately stop trying to save my marriage and begin the pursuit of other woman.

Like I said.....unless you change your way of thinking, you can bet that you will find enough "excuses" to stop trying to save the M and pursue after other women. Sounds to me as if you have your W on some type of "time table" and are just waiting for it to be over so you can go out and play.

My heart aches when I hear this.

That's strange, you don't sound like a man in pain. Of course, you have to realize that I am looking at this from the POV of an almost WAW, so that is JMHO.

I am craving for adult companionship.

That is why you are in a very dangerous place at this point in your MR. The kind of talk you are doing tells off on you in not so good of a way and you need to rethink what is most valuable to you in life. You have two little kids to think about more than screwing around. Listen, I KNOW where lonliness will get you! I went over 12 years without sex from my H--or him even sleeping in the same bed with me. Yeah, it could have been very easy to find enough excuses to leave him.....and when I first came on board, I was trying to "justify" my EA. I told about how I had been neglected by my H all our M and he would not talk to me.....and I did not lie about one thing.......but I still was not facing the truth, which was the fact I was in denial about myself & OM and was rewriting history to a huge degree and painting my H to be the "bad guy" and I was pure as gold.

This being in “limbo” thing is very hard.

It will get much harder.

We are both good individuals who simply have stopped communicating./quote]

The beginning of the death of a M.


Your 180's are fantastic! Are you "really" doing all of that? I hope so.


I am glad to see you add this last part....

[quote]I hope my wife will notice this in time so that we can save our marriage

.

I hope you mean you really want to save your M b/c it is going to get very hard b/c it gets better. You did not say what her age is (or yours), but I would think according to your children's ages that you two are still young. It is so hard these days to have a good MR due to a lot of reasons that I won't go into......but it "can" happen. A couple can have a good M even when all odds are against them. I did not hear anything about either of your childen being physically or mentally handicapped. Apparently, you and your W are healthy. Finances must be good if one of you are able to stay home with the chidren. I did not hear anything about in-law interference or a death of a loved one. In fact, I did not hear about any real burdens of life except for the fact the two of you don't communicate. That is pretty sad, isn't it? Both of you have so much to be thankful for, but you know what? Knowing and seeing all our blessings does not automatically make us happy. Happiness is another "subject" altogether and I don't have time to get into it at this time. Having this information does not automatically cause us to be happy and contented in a M. It takes work and a lot of it. If she is not working with you, then it will be very difficult, to say the least! There have been men who have come here that had the same stitch as you but I think were showing a firmer determination to stick it out. That is what I find distrubing about you is that you don't seem to have that mind set of sticking with it. I have to ask you again what do you feel is the most valuable thing in your life? Until you know the true answer to that--and are willing to do put 100% into working toward it.....then I don't believe you are going to be happy in anything. BTW, some of those men who came here to the board that were in the same stitch as you......were successful in turning their M around. Of course, there were some who did not......and it wasn't their fault.....b/c the W would not work with him. But one thing is certain, if "you" don't really want to stay M, then you won't stay M.

You have just started on this board and I hope you will continue b/c it can be the greatest tool in the world to help keep you balanced in your pathway to a better life. You will receive encouragement and good people who listen. There may be some that even give a 2x4, but it is only b/c of "caring". You would not want to be a part of a community that did not care, would you? Neither would I. So, keep posting as much as you can and go to other threads to read and learn. You seem to have terrific 180's, which at this point may be more "goals" than anything else......but the point is to turn them into 180's. You do have that going for you and I think that shows that you have taken notice to the DB principles! Many folks never "get it". The biggest thing is that you have gone too long without what you "need" and it is telling off on you. I'm sure that is why you have been critical and blaming and some of those other bad traits. That is understandable! You have a chance now to turn yourself around and hopefully this R.

Take Care,
Sandi

[sandi2]

Opps....messed up on one of the quote boxes, but I bet you can figure it out.

[steady]

sandi you are the bomb. Maybe you can give my W a call? lol.

LFH, I can't add to what's been written above. Do yourself a favor and absorb what's being said to you. You'll get great advice but it's up to you to put it into action.

[Looking_For_Help]

Givingitmyall and Puppy: Thank you for your responses. I’ll definitely keep posting.

Sandi2: Yes, I am thick-skinned. You made some provocative points …thank you for your candidness. Please keep responding to my posts…I am not offended. So let’s start.

Quote:
I am going to be personal but most of us here on the board get pretty plain b/c people have to know what is going on in order to be helpful, so to come to the point, may I ask if your W has not been very "giving" in the sex department? I have a feeling that things have not been what they ought to be for a long time. Also, what do you look at when on the computer night after night? Are you into porn? A lot of men have confessed to turning to porn when their W would not have sex with them. Maybe it is what you said....or how you said it that made me wonder.

-We have had a very good sex life up until 4 months ago. As far as the computer goes...I read USA Today, ESPN, Sports Illustrated, CNBC, autotrader etc…no porn. For me, this would be against my moral beliefs.

Quote:
You have made yourself sound like a great guy.....and I hope you are. Of course, we only have "your" side of the story. So, like it was told to me one time......"you" are the one that is here, therefore, you are the one we must talk to. I have to say that I have too much pride to endure from my H what he endured from me. I think I may see that in you, as well.

-No, I’m not a great guy, otherwise I wouldn’t be in my current predicament. However, I am definitely not a bad guy either. I simply have not handled the “tough times” as well as I should have. My pride is a killer…I need to work on this point. Both of our families have said…”You guys are both very good people who simply are not communicating on the same channel…you need professional assistance.” Both sides of our families want us to stay together. They all thought we had the perfect marriage.

Quote:
got to tell ya, if you don't change some of your attitude about this MR, I don't think it stands a chance! You are OK with a D....you just don't want to be made a fool of??? So, which is more important to you, a M or pride? You perfer to stay M to her, but you don't need her. Okay, is that your way of saying you might not care one way or the other? And now, you are thinking there are plenty of women out there for you! Well, you are probably right.....but will you fall in love with any of them......or does it matter at this point?

-You are correct about my attitude, however, I'm simply trying to detach. Maybe this is wrong. I let my emotions rule at the most inopportune moments. Point accepted on pride versus M. I did not realize how prominent my pride, ego, and attitude comes across. Thank you for pointing this out. I do care about saving my marriage, otherwise I would not bother with DB. I love my children with all of my heart and do not want to do anything that would potentially hurt them, especially divorce. I wonder if I’m subconsciously starting to prepare for the inevitable, or am I detaching? I’m not sure on this point. I do not think that there are plenty of women out there for me, just that there may be one out there that is right for me. I thought it was my wife…she may still be the one. Maybe I’ll be alone for the rest of my life…I don’t know. I love my wife very much, but if she truly no longer loves me, moving on with life would simply provide sanity for me. Maybe it’s inappropriate to start thinking about the future at this time. Patience is definitely a virtue.

Quote:
You've got to be kidding! In other words, the part that is "difficult" for you all goes back to being worried that you may be made a fool of. It's not that you would be destroyed that she fell for another man.....just don't make "you" look bad....right?

-What I meant by saying I’m o.k. with an affair is that I made my bed… now I have to sleep in it. I deserve it. Of course it would hurt my inner soul if my wife fell for another guy. My life would be shattered. My life is currently shattered. It just seems that whatever I do, I can’t get out of my tailspin. I need help.


Quote:
Like I said.....unless you change your way of thinking, you can bet that you will find enough "excuses" to stop trying to save the M and pursue after other women. Sounds to me as if you have your W on some type of "time table" and are just waiting for it to be over so you can go out and play.

-I do not want to go out and play. I want my wife back. I wonder if this is simply my way of putting up defense mechanisms against being hurt. My instincts are to tell W how sorry I am and that I still love her very much and that I want our marriage to work, but DB and other books talk about detaching and not begging. I am very confused on this point. As far as the timetable thing, patience is not my strong suit, I will definitely have to work on this.

Quote:
That's strange, you don't sound like a man in pain. Of course, you have to realize that I am looking at this from the POV of an almost WAW, so that is JMHO.

-I have cried more times in the last 8 weeks than I have in my whole life. I am in pain and I think my natural defense mechanisms may be overshadowing by DBing. I think about this situation all day long. This isn’t healthy. I have anxiety attacks about four times a day.

Quote:
Like I said.....unless you change your way of thinking, you can bet that you will find enough "excuses" to stop trying to save the M and pursue after other women. Sounds to me as if you have your W on some type of "time table" and are just waiting for it to be over so you can go out and play.

-I want to be very clear that I do not want to pursue other women. I have/had a very good woman for the last 12 years. I/We simply have lost our way(s) in recent times. I want her back. The walls that my W has put up seem insurmountable to me at this time, especially if there is another guy.

To address some of your other points:
(1) Wife, kids, and myself are very healthy.
(2) Wife and I both have full time jobs. It’s just that my wife has to travel alot with her job.
(3) I’m 38 and the W is 35.
(4) No life burdens at all
(5) And you are correct…our situation is very sad considering all that we have.

As far as sticking this out…I have my moments where I can be strong for years to come. I have other moments where I’m ready to call an attorney and give up. This is definitely an emotional rollercoaster ride, but I deserve it. I pray every day that the Lord can give me the strength and wisdom to do the right thing and see this through.

I hope my response clears up some of your concerns. I am not an indifferent jerk, but it appears that my writing style frames me in such a manner…or maybe its just my defense mechanisms…I don’t know.. But one thing for certain…I desperately want to save my marriage. This is very clear to me. Please keep responding to my posts. I have read your replies to other folks and it seems like you are full of great knowledge, very sincere and helpful. I am willing and eager to hear more comments and advice from you.

Thank you,
LFH

[sandi2]

Thank you so much for responding quickly to my post. Now you sound down to earth where i can talk to you...... By that, I mean you expressed yourself in a way that I know you aren't an a$$ who is just thinking about himself. Now I know you really care about the M and want it to work out. If you are being honest, then it sounds like you sincerly have your priorities in order. I am sure glad to hear that. I am also very glad to hear you were not into porn. You are a rare man, I think, b/c so many men who are unhappy in their MR that long of time...do turn to porn. I am also surprised to hear the sex life was good during these 10 years of unhappiness. That is usually the undergroud problem of a man's unhappiness and hurt pride. I'm not saying your pride is hurt......I am talking in general terms.

So........it is strickly a communication problem. What about other interest in life? Are the two of you involved in anything your enjoy "together" or is everything more independent of each other? Do the two of you have your hobbies, spots, entertainment, etc. separtely? What about friends? That is so important. It is okay to have your set and she has her group, but every couple needs to have some mutual friends together. The two of you sound a lot like me and my H on the bad communication......and I can tell you that it can destroy a MR. I went for so many years of not having "any" communication from my H and feeling as if I was M to a stranger, that I finally gave up all my "Total Woman" techniques and just started going into my own little world and living most of my life separtely from him. Of course, our children, church life, family, etc., was our biggest link and is what kept us going. But as far as our R together.....it sucked! I don't have time right now to get off into all of that b/c I have to get ready to leave, but I will get back ASAP b/c I do want to talk to you more.

As long as you are totally honest on the board......and I have no reason to think you wouldn't be.......then there is a great chance for you to have a much better way of handling your problems in the MR.

Again, thanks for answering many concerns I had. I was hoping that most of that was your way of "spewing off". I will address the details of what was said as soon as I can get back to the board.

Take care,
Sandi

[Looking_For_Help]

Hello Sandi,

Here is some more background information about my situation.

We moved to our “new” city back in 2/2008. We lived in our “old” city for the past 10 years. All of my wife’s family members live in this “new” city. I felt that moving to this city would be a good thing for our family, being close to grandparents etc. Oh boy was I wrong. I completely underestimated the difficulties I would have with a new geographic location and a new job. I really loved living in our “old” city. Unfortunately, I became very negative about this new situation and constantly reminded my wife of this mistake. I believe the negativity finely wore my wife down. Also, my mother stayed with us from Nov 2008 through Mar 2009, and that didn’t help with our communication problems either. She was with us to help out with the kids since my wife traveled so much with work. Nevertheless, my work and geographic issues were slowly improving as of late 2008 and early 2009, to a point where I was beginning to be happy. Unfortunately, this was the same time that my wife dropped the bomb on me. So here we are.

As for your other questions:

(1) My hobbies include golfing with my new friends, exercising, and now ballroom dancing. I am pretty quick to make new friends wherever I go. I believe my wife is resentful of this fact and my hobbies.
(2) My wife’s hobbies include her career and exercise. I say career b/c it completely consumes her time. Even during family time, she can be found on her computer answering work emails. I believe she has low self-esteem and the success in her career fills that void. Unfortunately, I believe it has been to the detriment of our personal and family time together.
(3) We do not have mutual friends in our “new” city. In fact, I’m not sure if my wife has any friends here outside of work.
(4) The problem is that we have relied on each other for most of our happiness, and failed.
(5) We used to golf together prior to the kids arrival. Since then, it’s been hard to separate family time from husband/wife time.

I am keenly aware of what I have done wrong over the past year or so. My 180’s are geared to reverse these behavior patterns. So, my daily goals have been to be happy, compassionate, less critical and blameful, and agreeable…all while GALing. I do not succeed every day, but it is clear where the direction of this change is going.

Again, thank you for responding to my post. You just may be the little angel I have been praying for to assist getting me through this situation and onto a healthy, romantic, and fulfilling marriage.

Thanks,
LFH

[givingitmyall]

The similarities b/w our sitch's is scary.

My W has just re-entered teh work force after a 2 year off time. She has always worked and I think she places too much importance for her self worth in her job. She even talks to me at home in "corporate speak," which I don't like.

During evenings, she has her laptop open answering emails (personal and work) and her blackberry might as well be another appendage for her - she NEVER is without it - NEVER.

About 3 years ago, we moved from a suburb in our city to a smaller intown house. This was over my objection. W said it made sense since it was closer to S's school - which it was, but not that much closer than our old house. We have had nothing but property tax issues with the new county our house is in. I also do not like the intown lifestyle - hate to say this, but most people are fake - all about your house, what kind of car you drive, who has a trust fund. I hate that. I have worked for everything I have, and I am proud of my successes and accept my failures.

Oh, and I'm a big into golf too.