Divorce looming #14

[volleydog]

You are praying for the wrong thing. You don't pray for reconciliation. You pray for forgiveness and the knowledge, understanding and compassion that comes along with it. None of us are perfect. Hell I'm learning every day.

Amen...Can't treat God like a genie.

[CityGirl]

Let me say this. I don't insult there mother to them. I always tell them their mother loves them and that they should love their mother as well. I say this regardless of my feelings about knowing what she is doing.

Good - because your W as a mother and your your W as a W are two different R's. I still say that when you tell them your W wants the D but you dont, you are planting seeds of fault in their minds. They are not sophisticated enough to understand that while one parent might want the D, it takes two to get there. All they know is their parents are getting a D and mommy is the one who wants it. Since mommy wants it, its mommy who is making them live apart and in one house one week and another house the other week. So not only have you planted a see of fault on your W's part, you are potentially causing a huge conflict with your W should your kids tell her what you said. I am not suggesting you lie to them but there are ways to converse about the divorce where NO seeds of fault or planted and at their agees I think that is important.

Now do I personally feel that she loves them like she used to? No, I don't. I think she has clearly put her desires, not needs, but desires above her own kids.

Who are you to judge love? Do you have some sort of magic gadget that can measure your W's love for her kids? No, you dont. It seems her desires were to (A) either be in a marriage where her H was a strong, confident, sober provider who wasnt needy and clingy or (B) have a different kind of life even if it meant leaving the H behind. Why should she stay trapped in a bad marriage when time and time again she let you know how unhappy she was? As somebody who grew up watching their parents have a terrible marriage I can tell you that for years my sister and I had wished my parents would divorce and when those thoughts started to happen, we were much younger than your girls. You were not giving her what she needed and desired from in the marriage so she had to leave it. Period. It hurts. But dont drag your kids in it and use that as a measuring tool for the love she has for them. Its unfair and judgemental on your part.

We could all say you loved your kids less because you drank. Or because you turned down a good job a long time ago. Or because you ran away to Florida because things got tough. Those actions might suggest your love for them was not strong but NONE of us are in a place to judge (and we dont own that handy love measuring gadget). Do NOT judge unless you are prepared to be judged as well. Your judgement of people is a chronic problem.

Now does that clear me out of the picture? No. I have failed miserably in keeping focused on them because of my own inabilities to let go of my W.

I am glad you realized that and it MUST change at once. Period.

So in a way, we have both failed the kids in that aspect. But I do not try to make their mom the bad guy to them. I simply state the truth about where I stand. If that makes her look like the bad guy because I am not for the D, thats her problem. I agree with puppy. I don't think there is anything wrong with stating where you stand on an issue. I haven't said anything further about it to them. I haven't told them a single thing their mother has done or is doing. They don't know anything other than I made a lot of mistakes and mommy wants a divorce. That is all they know. If anything, I have made myself look like the bad guy to them by telling them that I made a lot of mistakes in the marriage and that mommy has a right to be angry with me.

I am not sure why you feel that is even worth a mention that you dont tell your girls what their mom is doing. What adults do on their own time is not the business of your kids. And no, by telling them that you made mistakes and mommy wants a divorce you dont make yourself look like the bad guy, you make yourself look like the victim... "hey kids, I made mistakes and your mom dumped me". As if one mistake here or there was the cause. Again, you are planting seeds of insecurity, if *they* make mistakes maybe they will get left too. Once again, if they repeat this to your W (and they will) your W will not see it as you admitting to being the "bad guy", she will see it as you playing the victim. You children are not old enough to hear the years and years of things that went on and now you are allowing them to think it was a few mistakes that led to this divorce.



Now I will admit that this morning they asked me why I would not be coming to the birthday dinner and I blurted out I wasn't invited and dropped it at that. I told them to have a good time and I know they will enjoy themselves and I will see them again tomorrow.

I will probably get 2x4'd for that. But I simply stated the truth. Now had I thought about it, I probably could have said something like I already had plans, which wouldn't have looked very good or I could have said that right now me and mommy need time apart. That probably would have been a better alternative. But I just responded immediately without thinking first.

Exactly - you dont think then spend your day obsessing about damage control. You simply could have said you were unable to make the party and then really talk up how much fun they would have to get their minds thinking in a different direction. Again, you made your W look like the bad guy by saying you were not invited. You may not openly call your wife the "bad guy" but you constantly give subtle hints and they are easily picked up on. How do you think your W will feel tonight at her b-day when your kids ask her why daddy wasnt invited? Again, it makes her look like the jerk because she is the one that has to answer to your kids about it, not you.

I am just having such an emotional and mental difficulty letting go of W even though she is already gone.

The thing you REFUSE to understand is the only way (and the chances are still beyond slim for you and her) that she will ever even consider looking your way is if you do fully let her go. The longer you hang on the less chance you ever have of even forming any sort of R with her beyond a co-parenting R.

I debated whether or not to send her a text today saying happy 35th birthday and I hope she enjoys it. As of right now, I have not contacted her or sent anything. It would probably make her day sour if I did.

Again, you spent your day thinking and obsessing about your W. You spent an entire day thinking about a text message. That is sad and pathetic. B-day or not, leave this woman alone.

Does it bother me that this is the first birthday we will not be spending together? Yes. It bothers me hugely. Its been on my mind all week. She always makes her birthdays a week long deal and we have a great time. I'm not part of that this year. And she is dating around now. Yes, the MLC is probably over and she has just plain moved on.

Again, you spent a WEEK obsessing about your W and a situation you can change right now. You are not part of it this year and you may never be a part of any her b-day celebrations again. She has moved on. When will you? What will it take for you to move on?

Y'day when I was driving home from the dr. I took an alternate route because of construction and I passed the court house where my H and I got our marriage lisc. And I smiled to myself because I remember how happy and excited we where and it was about 10 yrs ago to the day that we got it. I didnt feel sad per say but it brought a little smile to my face. When you are detached and when you start to move on you will remember good stuff w/your W fondly but it wont consume you for an entire day/week/month.

I don't think she wants to see anything from me right now changes or whatever except seeing me out of her life. I don't honestly believe that changes matter to her at this point. That doesn't mean I don't need to make them, but they don't matter to her. I need to make them for me. Which is why I am going to the C.

The only thing your W wants from you is to be a co-parent. She will continue to use you for things (errands, chores, money, the kids) because she knows she can but other than that she doesnt have much respect for you. That was made quite clear when she told you of her plans to get laid on her b-day. If you dont see by now you have to make changes for you then you never will.

Needing time apart is one thing. Having A's is another. But it doesn't change the fact that I still love her and want to repair things with her. And it doesn't change my stance on marriage is for life. You may be separated, but you are still spiritually married for life. Many will disagree with me on this. Thats fine. They are entitled to. My W has used all kinds of things to try and get around that, but then finally agreed. But added that she doesn't care and will just be forgiven.

I dont think you will find anybody that will tell you having an affair while still legally married is a good thing. It stinks. But it happens all too often and how you deal with it can make all the difference in the world. Do you think preaching to your W helped? No, it did not. And when she couldnt take your preaching anymore she just agreed with you to shut you up. You can think what you want about marriage but you cant be the only one in this marriage forever and right now that is the role you are playing. There is nothing to rebuild. You must take the stance that a NEW M would have to happen because there is nothing to build upon with the old one.

Like I said before. I don't have a problem with separation. I have a problem with her being with other men. Not that there is anything I can do about it. Its legal, we all have free will. It is what it is. But I don't have to agree with it or like it. And it does eat at me every day.

I dont think anybody likes to know their spouse is sleeping around. It hurts. Many of us have been there. But you are right about you not being able to do a thing about it. And if it eats at you each day that is your fault for giving your W and these men so much power over you. See, people tell me all the time how tough I am but the bottom line is I treat my H as he behaves and when you behave and ARE a cheater that is how you are treated. I am kind to him, I dont call him names and I show him the same respect I would show any random stranger but beyond that he is treated as he behaves. It is only in recent months my H has started to tell me that he misses me. Tough. He cant miss me that much as he still has a GF. So my stance towards him has not and will not change. Pick your stance Kevin, let it eat at you and destroy you more or stop giving your W and her men so much power.


Spiritually speaking she doesn't even have the right to remarry. But that won't stop her. And I am not some holier than thou Christian put here to judge. I am just a Christian who is having a tough time with things and trying to be the best Christian I can. That doesn't make me perfect by a long shot. Nobody is. And I spent years tearing apart this M. I was completely in self delusion mode. You all say I am in self delusion mode now about her coming back. I call it hope and faith that at some point she will return. You all say I have to change myself before any chance of that will happen. I agree. But I am not giving up on my M regardless of what happens or regardless of anyone telling me to.

What a load of self serving crap. You are one of the most judgemental people I know. I am tired of hearing about your "tough times". Its like a broken record. Each time you have the chance to make things less tough or heaven forbid BETTER you choose wrong. Nobody told you to give up on your marriage - what we have said is in order for ANY sort of R to be built you must change first. You dont care what we say because you are going to keep doing things your way and digger yourself into a deeper hole. So, do what you want, soon enough nobody will care anymore.

The D was dismissed for some reason. I don't know why. All I know is I prayed every day it would be to give us more time and somehow it was. I don't think that was an accident. I wouldn't be giving credit where credit is due if I said it was an accident or that God had nothing to do with it.

Exactly... you have NO idea why it was dismissed and if I had to guess I think you answered your own question. Your W might be losing her job at the end of the year and yours most likely will go perm. So, she waits until she is unemployed and you are employed then files so she will get the most financial benefit possible. Your W is not a dumb woman.

See, things happen. They aren't necessarily what I am praying for, but they are things anyways that help me. The free counseling. What were the odds. I was put on a waiting list apparently and got moved up somehow. My W has had problems with her van one after the other lately. My car is doing great and is 2 years older. My W's job is likely going to end at the end of the year. Mine is likely to go permanent. I have the books to study what I need to move my career forward with. I just need to apply them. I try to read the bible, although I need to read it more especially when I am down.

It seems to me you pray for favors and IMO that is now what prayer is about. You should be praying and thanking God each day for your health, your kids and the ability to breath and walk and talk. You should be praying for guidance on how to improve yourself and the strength to so. Not for favors.

You know, people start reading R books when they see their R is in trouble when in most cases we should be reading R books right from the start. So you read the Bible only when you need it and not as a constant. God is not a magician.

I feel like God is working overtime for me and maybe it is all to set up a reconciliation at some point in the future if I can just do what is being thrown my way. He probably needs me to be in a better position than I am right now mentally and emotionally before he can start working W back into the equation. Thats exactly what you all have told me. I just need to remember that and do that and not fall down on that.

You can feel what you like but I think you sound terribly naive. As long as you take being stomped on disrespected for just a little longer than you will be rewarded. You wont be and the cycle will continue.


This whole thing is the biggest event of my entire life much like the rest of you. Why would I give up on it? Where would my faith be if I gave up on it? What I need to make sure of is that my faith if not in my W but instead in God at all times regardless of the outcome. And even if it does end in D. It doesn't mean it is over forever. Lots of things can change over time. I am remaining faithful, regardless of knowing what she is doing. That doesn't have anything to do with lack of self respect. The lack of self respect comes in to me not figuring out how to be happy without her while I wait and pray for a reconciliation. That is where I lack horribly. But even if I figure out how to be happy without her, it does not mean I am giving up on her and our M. It just means I am mentally and emotionally happier and can handle better whatever comes my way.

As long as you are prepared to wait for the remainder of your life to reconcile then think what you want. Seriously. Will it take your W getting remarried, having children with another man and moving out of state for you to stop waiting? What is your limit?

I am my own worst enemy and I have to get past this.

Then make a damn plan and get to it.

They can't rely on their mom for a stable life, so I have to be the one to provide that and I have to start stepping up to the plate better for them or they will have nobody.

Again, making judgements about your W. She provides them with food, shelter, clothing, medicine, schooling, social activities and they are very involved in her family. It might not be *your* definition of a stable life but to say she does not provide one is again, judgemental. What I bolded above is exactly what I mean - you think you are better than your W because you are "sticking it out" and she isnt. My word.

Stop making judgements just because it is not your ideal scenario. You keep saying you are doing the best you can. Did you ever stop to think so is she? Instead of thinking positive things about her you always go to the negative (you do this with all things). This post took lots of time and thought - I hope you dont gloss over it just because it pointed out some hard observations to read.

[K4D]

I think it is time to change my perspective on things. Its time to show some PMA. I'm going to start a new thread with a new name. Its going to be something positive.

I had a wonderful evening with FaithfulH tonite. He is a really great guy. It could not have been more pleasant.

I also have to admit that I did not know what PMA stood for until tonite when FaithfulH told me. I had figured out everything else, but not that one.

I have some reading to do, so I will get back with you all on the new thread name after a bit.

But it is time to get away from the dooming and looming and move into a positive outlook.

Kevin

[FaithfulH]

Kevin,

It was a pleasure to meet you tonight! Thanks for your too kind words!

I know that you ARE processing the feedback that you get here whether it is always apparent or not. As we discussed, you owe it to both yourself and your W to give her space...so, you BOTH can work on your healing and growth! One thing I forgot to send you was this link to the detachment information we discussed. This website gives a really good overview of "what is detachment" and "why is it important":

What Is Detachment?

Remember that this is all about rebuilding "trust" with your W and there is a lot of work to do. You DO have what it takes to do this...with a strong helping from God!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Atta boy, Kev. I like the new attitude!

Puppy

[Done in VA]

Hi Kev,

I wanted to say that I have been keeping up with this thread off & on for awhile & have only just jumped on today. I have been reading something that has helped me develop a more positive attitude during my struggles & felt today's devotional, which I just read, applied to you (an all of us on this board for that matter). I am human, I get mad & vent on this board so this book is not a cure all, but it's very inspirational. And it sounds as if you are a Christian so I thought I'd mention it. It is a book called Champagne for Soul, Rediscovering God's Gift of Joy by Mike Mason.

It is a 90 day experiment in exercising your "joy muscle". The author had been an alcoholic at one point & feels that it takes 90 days to develop a habit. The author wanted to see if the more you practiced seeking joy, the more joy you would receive in your life.

My reading tonight made me think of you & I would like to share.

"Anyone can "consider it pure joy" when everything goes well. The time when such an attitude really counts is when "you face trials of many kinds". Happy people can have just as many problems as unhappy ones. The difference is that unhappy people hate having problems, whereas happy people are content to work through their problems, finding joy in spite of and even because of them. Joy doesn't result from avoiding suffering but from moving through it. If there's a shortcut to happiness, it's through trials."

And

"If we think it is unreasonable to expect ourselves to rejoice in suffering, try looking at the other side: Isn't it unreasonable not to rejoice? Taking into account God's great love and faithfulness, and the promise of our eternal reward in heaven, isn't a joyless attitude like a small child's tantrum? Feeling powerless, we either shut down or throw a fit as the only means of retaliating against the one who does hold the power.

Unhappiness is a form of pouting. It's a way of saying, "I shouldn't have to suffer like this; it's scandalous; and I don't deserve it and I won't accept it". Fine. Your unhappiness will continue until you do accept it. You'd rather be right than happy."

I hope you'll find this message as encouraging as I did. Isn't it a joy in itself that some person across the country who has never met you, only posted on your thread once before, was just sitting in bed reading her nightly devotionals & she thought of YOU? You have lots to be thankful for in your life from all the people on this message board to your family and your health. Please focus on that for now. Good night!

[K4D]

Thanks FaithfulH, PPD, and Hopeful in VA,

And yes, I did find that message encouraging and yes it is certainly a joy to know that a person across the country who has never met me was thinking about me.

I certainly appreciate it and wish you a good night as well.

W did call me tonite to tell me to bring D7's swim suit tomorrow so she could go swimming. She then proceeded to tell me about her birthday dinner and then a place that I have to try that she went to at lunch today. She was very friendly. I then finally said happy 36th birthday to her on the phone and I am glad she had a good birthday. She said thank you. Then she sounded like she was looking for something else to say and then she decided to hand the phone to D11 so I could talk to her and then I talked to D7. I told the girls I love them and to have a good night.

I did some more reading tonite and I will need to think over the next day or 2 about a good new positive thread name. I will post it as soon as I do.

Kevin

[traveldane]

Kevin,

I like the way you are pointing out the positives in your life, and recognizing that sometimes we don't get what we want, but what we need, at the given time.

I see you taking some steps. That's great. Keep focused and be blessed.

[K4D]

Ok,

Where do I start. I am in the middle of reading "How to save your marriage alone". I started it last night and should finish it today.

I think yesterday afternoon I was a little frusturated. I clearly had not met my W's needs and she clearly was seeking them else where. When I said desires, I meant physical, not emotional for her. But the 2 can go hand in hand.

So I blew it with that comment. I have had some time to think that one over.

25, I was reading your post this morning to Stuck808. Its interesting what you said about if your H had found out and exposed that you would have certainly gotten a D. That put a bit of fear in me that I did expose my W's affair to my side of the family and some people. I see now that could have been a huge mistake after reading your post.

I had to drop off D7's swim suit this morning to the house on my way to work. I spoke to W briefly. I told her that I don't think we should spend fathers day together. I said that she has asked for time and space to heal and that we can look at fathers days in the future. She said it doesn't matter to her. Its my day and for the girls. She seemed hardly unphased by it. I said I think God is working on me with unconditional love so take her time to do what she needs and I will see her when I drop off the kids. She said a short thanks and hardly paid attention to me.

Thats ok. This is going to be a long journey. I did alot of praying last night and this morning along with some reading. I have faith that she will come back at some point. But it isn't going to be anytime in the near future. In the mean time, I have me to work on and my girls to work on. As I said yesterday, I can't expect God to work on my W or my M until I have allowed him to work on me to be where I need to be. I am starting to really get this.

D11 goes off to church camp next week during W's week to have them. I will get D7 either wednesday or thursday night. I need to let W know this morning which night I want. And then it is another personal trial week for me. I intend on spending more time reading and praying and excercising and working on me. I have C, Monday night, a D support group Tuesday night, and church Wednesday night. The hard stretch will be Thursday night through Sunday. But I will make it and keep myself focused. One step at a time, one day at a time.

lol, W is definitely in her own world right now. And that is ok. It took over 10 years to break this down. It isn't going to be repaired over night or in a few months. This will be my greatest walk of faith ever.

Kevin

[ManofGod34]

Thanks FH! That information on Detachment was very helpful. I had the same mindset as Kevin and got ran over by my W. My fear of D gave her complete authority over my actions. I really didn't realize it until I let my W go yesterday and peace come in like never before. W has been threatening me to sign the petition for D for over a year now. W would go from nice to mean when she doesn't get her way. I was truely blinded and in deception. I'm still believing for the impossible. "With GOD all things are Possible". I was trying to be God for the longing. Now, she is in GOd's hands, and I will work on improving myself as a father, Christian, and Husband.