"Exposure" vs. "Shame"

[25yearsmlc]

Sorry to say, but most marriages that arrive at this site, (DB) are going to end no matter what the LBSer does. But there are enough happy endings and personal growth stories and "survival tips," to make it well worth spending time here anyhow. It's damn hard to know what to do when you see that statistic & choose to say "screw it, I'm DBing anyhow..." as reflected by my signature, I'm here to say that DBing can and did work for me...but even if it had not worked out that way, I've learned a lot and still am.

RE: This Thread---
I made my case for not using shame as a weapon in M for a lot of reasons, including not being in line with my own religious views, and my belief that it's Not effective in getting a reconciliation or truly "restoring" a marriage in the long run. (For those comfortable with Christian literature, I strongly suggest a book called "Blue Like Jazz" which is also written with a lot of wit, but It's geared for believers and non-believers who are curious about faith and what to "do" with it in our lives.. fyi). And it's what prompted me to post about all this in the first place & to look at my own flaws and the response to the book it provoked.

By training, I try to be precise with my wording. So let's be clear about what we/you each are saying & to what we are responding. The word "shame" is key to my position on not using it. So when some of you post disagreeing about a "bo peep" approach or some other point of view that I don't actually hold, it fogs up the real discussion.

For instance, when it comes to an LBSer confronting the adulterer, I never argued that an LBSer shouldn't ever confront the adulterer/WAS. There may be times you don't have to --(e.g., b/c they were going to confess to you or were ending the A themselves ) but that's a far cry from telling people to "lie for the cheater" ? (never said that either). I'm hardly the "bo peep" type either. (What is the bo peep approach anyhow? Is it hiding your head in the sand? Never suggested that either...) (Sigh)

I realize you don't mean that to insult, but it gets us off track so let's narrow down what is actually in dispute here, okay? If someone IS advocating a "bo peep" approach then let them make their case. [/i]But it is simply not mine to argue.

In sum, I thought we needed clarification of what we agree on and what we are actually debating. Narrowing down the actual area of dispute, should help us to resolve that which can be resolved.

Also, we need to remember that our own marital or divorce experience is not universal, even when it seems some WAS have a "script" of sorts, but we cannot project our anger or sitch's onto others, e.g., "no, not all men are selfish, not all cheaters are repeaters" etc., if you kwim.

Projecting our anger at our own sitch onto someone else's - is destructive. That is exactly why DB suggests not discussing some things with people who don't "get standing for" a M. Plus it does not help the person who is trying to reconcile either.
So please let's be more aware and disclose it when that happens to us or is done by us. It's human, certainly, but we have to be aware of it.

Finally, if someone here has not read the DB books yet, they should. This is a DB site. Whether you agree or not, at least know the frame of reference we have, (and also the numerous acronymns.)
That's the two cents I have for now. Hope this helps clears up some things.
( j )