Agh! He's detached completely!

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

Ok, so today is Sunday, and I've got tons of things to do around the house. Also, I'm trying to get not only my regular weekly Sunday chores done, but also tons of extra projects that have cropped up that need to be done...some fun hobbyish sorts of things, some not so fun like itemizing the rest of the rummage sale stuff and pack it into boxes to have a charitable organzation pick up.

I'm glad I have a lot to do because, frankly, I'm anxious for my H to come home from a weekend away. He was at a somewhat distant family members wedding alone yesterday and I'm wondering how he dealt with it, becasue I went to a close friends wedding LAST Sunday, and it was super hard to keep my cool.

I hope at least one person asked where I was or if he didn't just get married himself recently or something like that. I shouldn't be the only one having to feel like a toad and sheepishly say that I'm going through "Rough times" right now. I hate that I still care though, but part of it is spiteful, because it truly wasn't easy holding my head up high last weekend at the wedding, and since he's the one initiaing this D, I hope he should feel that at least a bit. He DESERVES to feel that way, because I still believe in love and marriage, it's not my fault that I unknowingly picked a loser who doesn't truly believe in them like I do.

I did a great job of it last Sunday during the wedding festivities though, and held myself together. Today, I'm trying to do these projects and chores not because they will make my H realize that I do keep my word and do what I say I'm going to do, (which, I'll admit, his opinion still matters to me too much), but also because I truly want to do these things, and not just to cause friction or make drama. For example, painting the garage door. I'm trying to get this first cleaned, then scraped and painted because it frankly looks like crap. Half of the paint is gone, flaked off, and if I was our neighbors, I'd be ticked off cause it looks somewhat derelict. However, the rest of the garage, thank god, is done in aluminum siding, so only the door looks crappy. So I went to the home store with literally flaked off pieces of paint, and I got them to color match it with a nice, exterior paint that has built in primer, so I don't have to worry about that part. I'm anxious to get this started before he comes home because if I start it, he'll "let" me finish it, but other wise he will complain and say that I'm making one more job for him (because I could never do it right of course), or that I did it "wrong".

He is so black and white on things, it makes me CRAZY sometimes!! I really do want to avoid the drama, so I'm going to get out there now and do the washing of the door with the solution, so it has plenty of time to dry so I can start painting before he comes home. I think I've got about 3 hours before then, so I'm good. One shouldn't have to constantly worry about what their H or W is thinking about stupid projects like this, when frankly, even if I do the worst job in the world, it will look better than the crap it is now currently...for god's sake! I'm trying not to care what he thinks but at the same time avoid oonfrontation, so I'd better get going quick.

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

Oh, more stuff. I found something about a marriage therapy I hadn't heard of before, Imago Relationship Therapy or something like that on the NIMH website. I think it would be a lovely idea to try it because it's premise is that we pick a partner that has the issues we ourselves need to work on. Apparently, a lot of couples go through the infatuation stage, then the next stage of disillusionment and so on, and never make it through the acceptance of the other person's flaws stage, and lastly, the best stage, loving them anyways! I think that we are still stuck as a couple in stage #2, however, I'm willing to go through the rest of it and have already done #3 on my own, but he hasn't. I don't think he'd be willing to go to this weekend program for Imago unless it was recommended by our MC. I'd say his therapist, but frankly, I hate her from how he acts after a session with her and the fact that she's been telling him to get out of the marriage for months now, instead of working through our issues. Imago talks about that too, saying that we all have to "grow up" and face the issues through marriage, and it isn't easy.

My friend, and ex bf, the attorney stood me up yesterday for our meeting. I'm really upset about it because I had called him just to ask a few simple questions about a form I'm filling out, and he told me he'd be happy to sit down with me and go through the form one on one at his office. He also said it would be free, and frankly, the way he hurt me repeatedly by coming into and out of my life (and me letting him back in 2 more times) makes me feel 100% cool about accepting his help because I've earned it and then some, with all the tears I cried for him. Now he's not responding to my calls at all, and I'm ticked off. If he didn't want to answer my questions even, he should have been man enough to tell me that. Instead, I waited for an hour on the steps outside his office waiting for him. So, I'm going to submit this form without his help and hopefully it will be ok. It's rather simple, just the response to the initial divorce papers he filed, but I may well try to get help from the free legal clinic just to allay my concerns. I really don't need to be jerked around any more than I already have people!!!

[sophia]

IWSOM,

I'm so sorry for what you've been going through the last few days. But you have held yourself together with class and dignity. You inspire me with your strength.

I will have to check out that Imago Relationship Therapy you described.

This is just my opinion, but I think to be in a succesful marriage both spouses need to completely accept each other, flaws and all. True love is complete acceptance and putting the other's needs ahead of your own. It sounds like your H had a problem with you not making enough money, therefore he was not ready to accept you completely even after you sold your house so you could be married to him. I think that your H currently lacks the maturity to be fully committed in a marriage.

I think my H lacks the maturity to be married, also. It's frustrating, we want our WAH to wake up and realize that maintaining a marriage means you have to take care of it, nurture it so it continues to grow and flourish. But they choose to take the "easy" route, running away. They are afraid of conflict and would rather not deal with it.

You are being smart by standing your ground on making sure you get a fair settlement. In the meantime, continue taking the high road. This is no refection on you, you are the one who has consistently demonstrated more maturity by wanting to work on your marriage. It's heartbreaking, I know, because I've only been married less than a year too.

Continue being true to yourself and know that there are other women who are experiencing the same kind of struggles. And don't give up hope that he may come around. I still have hope, but in the end I know that I will be okay, (make that great!) even if he chooses not to stay married to me.

Me 40
WAH 43
T 4 years
M 9 1/2 months
stepson 9
H left 1 month ago
No D filed

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

*********
Montana- You are such a sweetheart. Thanks so much for your kind words. I wish I was half the person you think of me as, because most of the time, with this situation being the emotional powder keg that it is and me going from somewhat "normal" to teary or furious in < 30 seconds, I feel like a train wreck!! lol!

It helps so much to be able to talk to people like yourself, who totally understand this crazy whirlwind of fear, hoping and pain that we are all in.

Funny that you mentioned lack of maturity as far as my spouse and yours...I read a good article about "marriage is all about growing up", www.simplemarriage.net/marriage-is-all-about-growing-up.html and forwarded it to my spouse awhile ago. I doubt he read it unfortunatley.

I completely agree with the idea of it, because I sure have gone through a lot of growing up in a very short timeframe. So have you...unfortunately both of us haven't been blessed with the joy and happiness we should be during our newlywed year, instead we are here. Oh well, no one said growing up would be easy! lol! It's one of the reasons I like the idea of the Imago therapy, they say that both partners have something to learn from the other, and that will help them grow up into a better person, but you're right, both people have to WANT to let go and take that leap of faith and TRY together to make it work.

And the sad thing is that I really doubt that I can get my spouse to go to the Imago weekend workshop that's coming up at the end of the month cause he doesn't want to try anymore. I point blank asked him about a month ago about trying another therapist or a weekend program (I was considering the Catholic program called "Renoument" or something in french meaning reunite), and he said "No".

I'm thinking of calling our MC and asking her to broach it with him, because maybe he'll consider it then. Then I have to scrape together the $ somehow, but it'd would be totally worth it in my opinion, it's exactly what we both need.

I feel like if I bring it up there's NO WAY that he would even consider it, but perhaps, just maybe, he would if our MC brought it up because he respects her opinion because she was recommended by his supposedly wonderful therapist. (I can't go to her because she's been saying for months he needs to get out of this marriage, she is not pro marriage, she is "run for cover" and don't work through your problems and keep the status quo, needless to say I loathe her).

I could offer to trade it for something he wants me to do, like for a concession in the divorce. It feels slimy even saying it, but maybe it's worth it to gamble on something because frankly, I don't have much left to lose at this point, now do I?

Mind you, he did go to the Marriage Encounter weekend without any fuss whatsoever, but that was a big bomb for us because of the communication technique used there, long story, but he did agree to go, which totally surprised me. That was 2 months before he filed though... ??

Montana or others out there...
Got any other ideas that might help me to get this idea of the workshop off the ground with him??

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

Getting better at detaching thanks to the DR

Using the ideas of the DR helps, because in trying to do them repeatedly, despite my repeated slipups, I am still getting better with practice and I'm able to detach and look at the situation from afar as opposed to taking everything so personally, which is quite helpful at times.

I guess my spouse really had a bad weekend attending the distant relatives wedding out of town because within 10 minutes of him coming home, he said "F*ck Y**" to me, which he's NEVER said, and not only that, but he said it while we were both outside on the front lawn, in PUBLIC, no less! I was non plussed and didn't talk to him after that, much less a snappy, sarcastic comeback, much to my credit, but neither did I take it personally at all, which is far more important to me right now.

I can honestly say that he just must have had a wretched time coping (or trying to cope) with a million people asking about our wedding, almost 8 short months ago at this wedding.

I didn't feel the smug satisfaction I would have thought I might, but instead I felt really detached and was happy for him that he chose to next go to the gym and workout for a few hours because obviously he needed to let off some steam. That's exactly what I did when I got home from the wedding as well, because that's the best way I've found to deal with the stress and frustration. Forget getting drunk out of your mind, and try something aerobic. Not that I'm a fitness junkie by any means, but it always helps, even if I hate the idea of doing it beforehand and have to drag myself into the gym or onto an elliptical, always a few minutes in I'm into it and enjoying myself get a good hard sweat going.

Given how robotic my H's been acting lately, and how scarily good he is at detaching compared to me, I guess it is partially a relief to see him be somewhat affected by all of this. If he didn't care at all anymore, he wouldn't be upset, now would he? This is something to hold on to when it seems like there is no hope left for our marriage.

Also, I feel some satisfaction that he hasn't yet sent an apologetic email yet, which he has done in the past when he's lost his cool. This tells me that he is either really busy or hasn't yet cooled down his emotions. I see hope in the fact that attending a wedding, his first after ours, upset him because I hope that means he really drank in the whole experience and it affected him. Emotion from him is good, because I am SO SICK of the robot he's been acting like, god since April 22nd, 2009...over 7 weeks now. A "crack" in this facade lets me know he is still actually human, thank god, and that maybe, just maybe, this marriage can still be saved.

Ok, now the bad part about having supportive relatives is this, that in hearing your point of view and your pain during all of this, at some point, they may "turn" on you and basically say "dump this loser, move on", just like Michele says in the DR. At least this is what I am now getting from my dear brother. I feel pitiful claiming I do want to continue to try for my husband, but it's the truth more often than not.

Not only is it honestly more efficient and time saving to work on what I already have here, an existing marriage, I still can clearly remember all the good times (as well as the bad times) and want to get there again, and think we still can.

To be perfectly blunt, I am terrified by the thought of starting over completely with someone else, and having them get to know my quirks and my secrets and so on, not only that but the getting to know you process and actually finding someone worthy of investing my heart in once again. This is NOT to say that given enough bad treatment, I won't throw up my hands in the air and beg for a new chance with a new person, but right now, surrounded by my husband and our things and our life, I still want to try. Are there better men out there for me? Possibly, but for right now, what's the harm of trying to work on what I've already got, especially since we've only been married less then a damn year? What's a year? Not enough time, that's what it is.

I'm so lucky to have you all to "confess" this to, because others around me are giving me the impression I'm "weak and pitiful" kind of like an abused woman going back to her husband. I could take my husband back were he to address his issues and anxiety and fact them head on, but I think my family and friends would be a much harder sell. Thankfully, time and consistancy might change their minds.

[sophia]

IWSOM,

I can relate to so much of what you're going through right now. It's so hurtful and frustrating to realize that our WAH do not want to be with us. But I think it helps to consider that they are probably in just as much pain (if not more) as we are because they are facing their own issues, some that probably never got resolved from childhood. They are in a fog and are not thinking clearly about anything. But they are clear in that they don't want to be with us right now. They've decided that it's more painful to be with us. So we have to step back and let them go so they can heal themselves and figure out what they want. It seems unfair that they can walk away from us, (especially as newlyweds!)but we really don't have any control over them. And if we truly love them, we wouldn't want them to stay with us if they're unhappy, would we?

When my H first left, I scheduled a counseling appt. for us, he initially acted interested, but he didn't show up. I made another one and emailed him the info, he didn't show up again. So I stopped letting him know about the appts, I figured if he wants to go, then he will ask me about it and go. I think if I were to continue talking and encouraging the counseling, then it may backfire and he would become resentful.

I've heard about the Catholic Retrouvaille weekends, they've saved many marriages. But again, with the frame of mind your H is in, I think he would be cynical if you mentioned it. However, if he respects you MC, then I would go ahead and ask her to suggest it to him.

As far as offering to sacrifice something in the divorce settlement to make him go, I would NOT do that. That would show him that you are willing to compromise your self-respect to save the marriage.

As much as we want our H back, we have to hold ourselves together with dignity and respect. They know we want to reconcile, but they will only look at us in a pitiful and unattractive light if we act out of desperation. When they see us moving forward, they will begin to look and think of us in a new light. Moving forward does not mean that we are giving up hope on our marriages. It just means that we are going to have a fulfilling life with or without them. We are going to shine our light despite the darkness that our Hs have created.

I hope I've been supportive and helpful. When I write to someone whose circumstance are so similar to mine, it helps me, too.

Me 40
WAH 43
T 4 years
M 10 months
Stepson 9
H left 1 month ago
No D filed

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

Montana-

Thanks for the reality check. You are absoulutely right, I need to maintain (and rebuild) my dignity. I know how absolutely pitiful I felt when I was literally begging for my marriage, and now that I have the blessing of time to look back on it, I cannot debase myself to do that again...for myself that is, I just cannot allow that sort of behavior because it is not healthy for me.

I just loved that bit about "We are going to shine our light despite the darkness that our H's have created".

Awhile back I asked him about the Catholic Retrouville program specifically, and he said no. That's another reason why I don't want to aske him about any other workshops at all, I want our MC to, because I fear he will just reject this "Imago Therapy" one too, because the ME weekend was not helpful for us (because of the fact that they only used one type of communication device, and my H just couldn't do it). I am excited, my book about the Imago therapy , "Get the Love You Deserve" by Harville Hendrix arrived at the local library yesterday per my request. I cracked it open and began to read it. It is SO what we need right now, that that is why I was willing to sacrifice some part of the divorce Montana, that's how much I'd be willing to bet this would help us. But like you said, giving that concession up would be too much like groveling for me, so I need to just trust in God, that if it is meant to be he will have our MC bring it up to my H, because I'm not going to bring it up only to be shot down once more.

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

I had another reality check last night because my cousins wife and I have recently started communicating and she told me yesterday evening that he asked her for a divorce after 10 years. Hearing the raw pain and hurt she was going through reminded me of my own experiences just weeks and days ago and through the DR, I could see some of the processes at work. This is not to say that I was detached to the degree that I couldn't feel empathy for her, far from it, it started me crying in fact to hear her troubles. But it did let me hear some of the craziness that surrounds the D word when it is brought up...like the fact her H said "I haven't EVER been happy in this marriage" and things like that. She says they have been happy for the past 5 years, and felt that "crazy making" feeling that I know only too well, when your memories get corrupted and your H is attempting to "rewrite history" because of his current hurting position. I was able to tell her what I wished I had been able to hear right at that scary time, that he is just saying these things out of fear and he doesn't really mean them, but they are very hurtful. It's scary to see it play out so "by the book" literally, and see the power of harsh words in an oh so fragile time already.

I didn't say one word to my H yesterday. Not a one. I consider this a "personal victory"...lol! Back in middle school, there was an educational video about PV, saying that every time you resisted peer pressure and didn't have sex or take drugs or swear or whatever, you were having a PV, no matter if anyone else knew it or not. Now I know that this was a PV for sure, and wanted to share it with you Montana, and the rest of the DB/DR world! Even when I had a perfectly legitimate reason to talk to him, I did not, and with dignity and grace put my chips and salsa and margarita down in the living room despite the fact my H was there (he sleeps there but is rarely there otherwise). Instead I just looked at him until he started talking saying that he had a really early morning today. So I walked away, again having said nothing back, which for me is HUGE progress. I mean, I didn't even make a face or have an odd expression, much less a sarcastic or b*tchy comment. This sounds like I'm a horrible person, and I get that. I'm not, it's just that I normally wear my heart on my sleeve and sometimes, like all of us, say something before I think it through.

Last thing...the last man I was serious about before my H is an attorney and he is the one who offered to help me with my response form because I have a ton of questions about it. My H's damn lawyer did not use the standard form, instead he used a regular letter form and numbered his items instead of the "Sections a-d" used on the response form. So since I don't want to agree to anything inadvertanely, I need some help making sure my response is correct. Anyways, I can definatley tell that the spark with the old flame is still there, and we've really enjoyed catching up by talking on the phone. I can't wait to see him again, since it's been a year and a half since I saw him last, but he's well aware that I am trying to preserve the marriage, so we both will be somewhat restrained, thank god. I know that this attraction is part of the reason I was able to do such a great job keeping my cool with the H last night.

I have really enjoyed talking to the guy I used to date, so long ago, the Attorney, on the phone and I know it has really increased my confidence and brought out the sassy, fun side of myself that I haven't seen in ages. Unfortunately, the guy I used to date, let's call him Gizmo, is still in the exact same place as he was when I last dated him in that he is still not 100% sure of what he wants. We would date, have incredible chemistry, and then he would "poof", disapear for weeks and weeks, despite any plans we would make. I allowed myself to fall for him and kept getting hurt, so this time I'm on alert, plus, <duh>, I'm married and there's no way I'd compromise that success with something that I pretty much know 100% is not going to work cause Gizmo is still stuck in the same place he was back then. With that said, I do intend to kiss him and I will not feel guilty about that at all. I have not cheated on my spouse ever, nor have I even wanted to kiss someone until this point, but I know that I will want to kiss Gizmo and I allow myself that much. It won't go beyond that simply because he and I never went beyond that when we went out. Like I said, it was a bunch of dating, intense chemistry and kissing, then nothing, for a total of three seperate rounds of dating before I simply stopped dating everyone except my husband, in part because he was so reliable and called when he said he would call, etc. Gizmo was the complete opposite of that, but I still was madly attracted to him and for some months cried every day for him.

[IWillSaveOurMarr]

Just checking in....same old same old, spouse still wants to do this "code of silence" thing, which is getting very old. Plus, I have asked him now twice to please go to the "Getting the Love you Want"/Imago therapy workshop, only 48 hours of his time, compared to the hours and hours I've spent not talking to him because that's what he wants...I think it's a fair trade, but he hasn't gotten back to me after my 2nd request for him to please go, which is where I pulled out the "tit for tat" idea. If he doesn't go, I am certainly abandoning this silence stuff, because it's ridiculous. Will I do the DR, sure, but I'm not staying quiet just to keep him happy when he can't even go to this one lousey workshop with me!

I met with gizmo, a kind of ex bf and my attorney, and it was kind of weird. First of all, he was totally unprofessionally dressed and had a 5 day stubble going. I cried for probably 1/2 of our time together when he was asking questions. I've made it very clear that I want to reconcile with my H, because that is what I want right now. At the end, he asked for a hug, and it was very nice, but it did not morph into a kiss, but I was more than happy wiht the hug.

I have somewhat changed my opinion of my relationship lately though...while I do want to reconcile and try a few months more, with both of us actively trying, I realize I can no longer think of this marriage long term, nor do I want to, because I'm not sure I WANT HIM for the rest of my life. All I know for certain is that it is way too soon to be ending it, and I would like more closure by having a bit more time to try to work things through. I tried to explain this to one of my loyal supporters, who thinks I should run for the hills away from this man, and he kind of got it, but still shakes his head in disbelief taht I'd want to be married to this "loser" in his words.

[Gardener]

I met with gizmo, a kind of ex bf and my attorney, and it was kind of weird. First of all, he was totally unprofessionally dressed and had a 5 day stubble going. I cried for probably 1/2 of our time together when he was asking questions. I've made it very clear that I want to reconcile with my H, because that is what I want right now. At the end, he asked for a hug, and it was very nice, but it did not morph into a kiss, but I was more than happy wiht the hug.

Good for you! I've been following along and when I read the whole wanna-kiss-ex-bf-attorney thing I wanted to chime in and shout, "Stop! Don't go there. Get another (2nd) attorney."

I realize I can no longer think of this marriage long term, nor do I want to, because I'm not sure I WANT HIM for the rest of my life.

I hear ya. I go back and forth on this. Emotionally, at least. But even though what we're all doing is called divorce busting, I find that, intellectually, when I start from a this-marriage-is-over stance, I do the actual, real-time db'ing w/W much more successfully. Go figure.